Retrieving Traffic Information on a site

**Cognition** · 01-05-2008 08:20 PM

Is it possible to retrieve traffic information about a website without actually viewing their private server stats?

Is it possible to "get an idea" about the level of a site's traffic in some way, form, or fashion?

Let's say the owner of a website made me an 'offer' about purchasing a 125x125 pixel graphic ad spot on his website. How do I verify the traffic level that he receives, so I will know if this is a good deal or if I'm being 'ripped' off?

Thanks - your assistance in this matter is appreciated!

-C.D. Allen

**akula** · 01-05-2008 09:06 PM

compete.com rank
alexa rank
both give estimates for site traffic

**Cognition** · 01-05-2008 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by akula

compete.com rank
alexa rank
both give estimates for site traffic

Is there any way to prevent those from profiling a website's traffic?

**jasaunders** · 01-05-2008 10:59 PM

I just came up with a brilliant idea (actually its not that good).
Most site owners don't want to give you access to their traffic stats.
Create a new google analytics account, tell the site owner to put your code on the site for 2 days or 7 days or whatever. This way, only you have access to the traffic stats and could verify traffic data.

**Cognition** · 01-05-2008 11:16 PM

^I'm not sure if that was a joke or not, as I didn't understand it.

Anyway, my thrust is this: If a website owner wanted to make sure that that his site's traffic could not even be estimated, what would he do?

**akula** · 01-06-2008 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by TheCDAllenGroup

^I'm not sure if that was a joke or not, as I didn't understand it.

Anyway, my thrust is this: If a website owner wanted to make sure that that his site's traffic could not even be estimated, what would he do?

put a security certificate on the site
...have a look at paypal.com or any other encrypted website - they don't have alexa or compete rankings

**akula** · 01-06-2008 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by jasaunders

I just came up with a brilliant idea (actually its not that good).
Most site owners don't want to give you access to their traffic stats.
Create a new google analytics account, tell the site owner to put your code on the site for 2 days or 7 days or whatever. This way, only you have access to the traffic stats and could verify traffic data.

it's an interesting problem
there must be well over 1million web properties traded every year in US alone
the buyers who've been fooled by fake/misrepresented traffic numbers and alexa rankings may feel that they want audited traffic numbers from trusted 3rd parties when they're out in the market looking for a new purchase

traffic audits seems to be an interesting service, which can be bundled in with click audits, Search Engine Optimization and general web marketing products

i think the success factor for any such venture would be a distribution deal with a 3rd party who either helps people buy or sell websites..sellers would be able to charge a premium (because the traffic has been audited) and buyers would be willing to pay extra for the purchase because more risk has been taken from the transaction

**jasaunders** · 01-06-2008 12:52 AM

Very interesting... I like where this is going. It does seem to be a very valuable service as you described or some variation of it. As far as a I know of, there is no solution out there right now for this large problem.

**akula** · 01-06-2008 01:03 AM

I've never bought a website, so I don't know what services are available out there, buy I have sold some web properties and the traffic numbers were something that the buyer never bothered to double check...so I'm not 100% sure that there is a problem worth solving in the first place - although, I can guess who'd be able to say for sure.

Out of the whole volume of websites sold every year, only about 10% of the sellers can be expected to be buying 90% of the listings. These professional web property traders would all be doing most of their business through 2-5 high profile channels like sitepoint...so I think that a quick survey of the buyers and sellers trading in these channels would quantify if the problem exists or not

**jasaunders** · 01-06-2008 01:11 AM

I see more potential in verifying traffic for buying advertisements on websites than in selling websites. I've never bought or sold a site, but I have bought many online ad spots. It would be great to verify the traffic of the website before purchasing these spots.

**BusinessAdviser** · 01-06-2008 01:16 AM

Are there ways that the ad seller who owns the website can prevent compete.com and other traffic estimators from estimating traffic though? This might throw a wrench into such a solution.

Also, as a side note, how are the traffic estimates made anyway?

**jasaunders** · 01-06-2008 01:25 AM

There are no traffic estimators really. The current sites estimate traffic by keeping track of the number of people with their toolbar installed and what sites they visit. I don't think it is very accurate. I have never met a single person who has an alexa toolbar in their browser.

**akula** · 01-06-2008 01:26 AM

Yah man, likewise, I'm not certain about the problem formulation here - and even if there was a problem, quantitative traffic audit (i.e. goog analytics) would probably not be the most elegant solution (because it's easy to imitate, and to abuse).

If the webmaster, either as a seller or a publisher is asked by the buyer or the advertiser to provide a traffic audit to support the transaction, they can implemented the goog analytics code from the auditor and still fake the numbers received by the auditor, putting the auditor at risk.

To overcome this, what's needed is a qualitative web analytics solution that i discussed a few years back. If I wanted to sell my site for the highest price, or charge the highest CPM, nothing would help me more than a bunch of qualitative analytics with feedback from users to the effect of "I love coming to this site!" or "This is the best site for me". That kind of data (best case scenario) can realistically increase the prices offered by buyers and advertisers, or simply provide extra differentiation to the sellers listing (worst case scenario).

Quantitative web analytics can be faked, altered and skewed, plus they have the shortcoming of being in a form that fails to make a vivid impression in the mind of the buyer - whilst qualitative analytics allow buyers and advertisers to feel confident when they read feedback from real people about their experience with the web property. The other thing, of course, is that qualitative analytics is very difficult to fake...because user feedback can always be double checked with a phone call.

**jasaunders** · 01-06-2008 01:34 AM

Two things...
1) Right now the stats could be faked, so the solution would need to somehow remove the seller from the equation. So the seller doesn't get the stats in the end to show the buyer (and thus manipulate them), they are run independently somehow.

2) I'm not exactly sure how you would gather the qualitative data, but what's to say that couldn't be faked either? People do it all the time; create fake accounts to review their own businesses.

**Cognition** · 01-06-2008 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by jasaunders

There are no traffic estimators really. The current sites estimate traffic by keeping track of the number of people with their toolbar installed and what sites they visit. I don't think it is very accurate. I have never met a single person who has an alexa toolbar in their browser.

In that case [and if that's true], Alexa rankings are clearly inaccurate [primarily undervalued].