[veikoh]

What about "Puskar" from Setoland. It has over 70% of alcohol and smells really bad.

[KyleJ]

I stumbled upon these forums and I found this thread. I've been making vodka myself for over 6 years now as I was a "master distiller" by the age of 18. I'm also friends with a few people in the business. It sounds like you honestly have absolutely no clue whatsoever about producing alcohol.

First, I don't know if you have to get a bond over in Australia to legally produce liquor, but I know here in Texas it can be anywhere from a $16,000 - $200,000 bond.

Second, is there a license in Australia? I know its legal to home distill in NZ, but wouldn't you be required to have a license for commercial production?

Third, have you ever made liquor before? Do you know how much the equipment is? Do you know the resources you need to have? To produce the amount of liquor you are talking about, do you have the man power for it? The equipment costs a lot, so do you have the money for the equipment? Do you have the facility? What about the machines for bottling? Labels?

Fourth, how do you expect to even get the product known after you DO make it? I know of a TON of different alcohol producers that have a decent product, but can't sell it. People won't buy what they don't know about. Because of this they fail miserably.

Fifth, have you even started a business plan? You want some advice on raising capital? Start with that, otherwise no one will even take you seriously.

Sixth, I don't know about Australia but I know here in the US you HAVE to go through a distributor and you cannot sell or distribute the liquor you sell. So you can't just hand out your product and throw parties to get a distributor, as you'd have to already have one to do that.

Seventh, do you know the health risks and everything that can happen from poorly developed alcohol? Or what if something sparks and catches liquor on fire? Insurance is high.

I'm sorry for being so blunt but from what you've said, it honestly seems as if you truly haven't a clue about what you want and you're thinking of a pipe dream.

A massive ad campaign and supplying free drinks will bring distributors? Please tell me that was a joke. Why would distributors want your product? What makes you better than Smirnoff? Skyy, Grey Goose?

You make it sound as if you could start a successful business tomorrow. You are overlooking sooooooo many HUGE details.

I'm honestly offended by how you presented the information. There is so much hard work that is required in this field and you make it sound like its just a walk in the park. That is pure ignorance.

You want to build your own empire? You're jumping wayyy ahead of yourself.

Alcohol is extremely regulated by every government basically, as they know there is a major opportunity to get tax money from it. Alcohol is inelastic. People are going to buy it, regardless of price. Because of this, getting into the alcohol business is also extremely hard.

Before you even dream of producing alcohol as a business, you need to learn how businesses operate, what expenses to expect, how to run a business, how to plan effectively, etc etc. The list goes ON AND ON AND ON.

Do you know what vodka/rum/gin is made from? What exactly separates the great product from the lower end product? I'll give you a hint, virtually nothing. Its all basically marketing.

A cheap premium brand is a completely oxymoron. The only thing that separates ultra premium and "regular" vodkas is the price, and packaging. There are a few minor details, but all vodkas are made the same basically. Don't fall for the "distilled 9 times" and all that other junk. Distilling is distilling. If you run it through a pot still and then a reflux still, its going to be impossible for anyone except the most extreme of critics to notice a true difference with a finished product. So as I said, it basically comes down to marketing.

A few different things are performed to make it taste better, but again, all distilleries basically do the exact same. So if you bring your product to the market, how do you expect to de-throne these other vodka companies that have been around for so incredibly long?

Also, for producing 50,000 or 100,000 liters like you said so casually, do you even have the slightest clue the amount of resources you need for that?

Remember, not only do you have to pay for every single resource, you also have to pay taxes for every bottle made, and you have to go through a distributor which adds quite a bit of unnecessary fees. THEN you have to worry about your own advertising.

Unless you have millions to throw around, then you can forget about your empire. I see sooooo many people talking about starting their own distillery and what not. If it was easy as everyone thought, then there'd be a LOT more competition in the vodka market. And then everyone would be turning a lot less profit, forcing firms out of the industry pretty quick.

I don't know how old you are, but I suggest you either become an absolute badass (sorry for the language) in the field of alcohol and go from there, AS WELL AS learn how to successfully operate a business, or simply accept this as a dream and move along.

Theres a lot more I could say... but there isn't enough time in the day.


Note: Sorry if this seemed a bit too "attack-ish" for my first post. I promise I'm not here to crush dreams, but this thread needed a bit of reality and I'm one who can present it.

[Markme]

Thank you kyle for your brutally honest post, you answered nearly every question i had in mind and i am in no way offended.

ok to answer all of your questions.
I contacted the government that controlls all the production and taxing of alcohol.
The license to produce commercial amounts of alcohol and sell it is only around $1100, then there is an excise tax of $17.50 per 700ml bottle at 37.5% alcohol. There is no bond nor is there a requirement to use a distributor once you hold there license, although the use of a distributor will still be needed as its more cost effective in the long run than having a company employee delivering my alcohol all over the country side so people can get it.

addressing your third point, yes i have made alcohol before, no im not a master at it, but my step father has been brewing alcohol for probably as long as ive been alive, hes got 15 year aged rum that he made and a house rediculously full of incredible amounts of alcohol, so he would be the one that would be producing my mash for me, but i do know that you can produce alcohol from almost anything that reverts back into glucose.
coming to the equipment, im trying to look for advanced distillation equipment with efficient heating and pretty much automated production, which would indeed be expensive(also if you can point me in the right direction so i could even read up or find some one who makes this stuff id appreciate it.) but i have a contact who said they can readily make me a 500-1000L reflux still, would probably look like a frankenstein creation, use alot of power, but get the job done in the end... which still isnt ideal if im looking at producing larger amounts regularly hence wanting some one who does it as a profession to build it for me.

bottling has come across my mind, and i have the capacity to get the machines with easy at a fairly good price, facility is the easiest part as the goverment doesnt really give a damn where i make it and there is an industrial area 5km from where i live that houses a beer brewery there.

Getting the product known, i know alot of promotion models that have worked in the alcohol sector, extremely rich business associates, distributors, people that work in clubs and bars and even owners of bars and restaurants. I also know some professional marketers. also with clubs around here, generally if you pay the club you can hire the whole thing out fairly cheaply if the general public is still allowed in, which is an advertising dream if you can host your drinks of 2 for 1 nights and cheap tuesdays, because it will entice people to try something for lesser risk.

Business, ive run small business, ive worked in massive businesses at a fairly high level, i even give people business and marketing advice, but to be honest im way more adept in the internet sector of business, but i have alot of close friends that would and can help me along.

I am fully aware of the health risks that are envolved with alcohol that is poorly prepared, creating methyl alcohol is one of the worse one and there is a range of health and safety guidelines i have to meet before the goverment will allow the sale of my product, in fact i have to test every batch produced otherwise my license can be revoked and i could probably be sued for quite a lot if some one realises they don't just have a really bad hang over or they go blind from methyl alcohol poisoning.

trust me although is appears i am overlooking alot of things, i have taken alot of things into account and havnt mentioned it on here, as your the first person to give a very straightforward and accurate reply to my original post.

also to answer how old i am, i am currently 19 years old, i am receiving a very large payout from my work for a back permanent injury sustained at work.
Yes i am young, but i started my for business at the age of 5, using my pocket money to buy bags of lollies from the grocery store and splitting them up and then selling them to the kids around the neighborhood, effectively tripling my pocket money every week... infact i think i was the only 5 year old in the whole suburb who had $700 in cash.
i moved on from there, to start other small businesses, car washing, lawn mowing, fixing computers, then i finally was old enough to get a job.

[jmeijers]

Okay, so here's my 2 cents. I think that the liquor industry is mainly a commodity market. This means you have to compete on price. Which you won't be able to do versus the bigger companies.

You need a different strategy. Now, the 'healthy but getting drunk' thing is an option, although the fact that alcohol is not healthy when you drink more than 1 glass a day kinda defeats the whole purpose in my opinion. But this could be a line worth exploring, at least it is new.

Then when you settle on a drink to make, you will need either a patented formula or, even better, a secret recipe that is not easily copied. Like coca-cola. The problem with a patent is that it expires after 20 years. Coca cola has kept their true recipe secret for well over 100 years. Try that with a patent.

Bottom line: tough market, so be very creative and make sure the big boys don't have an easy way to copy your idea (providing it is a good idea in the first place of course).

[KyleJ]

Originally Posted by jmeijers

Okay, so here's my 2 cents. I think that the liquor industry is mainly a commodity market. This means you have to compete on price. Which you won't be able to do versus the bigger companies.

You need a different strategy. Now, the 'healthy but getting drunk' thing is an option, although the fact that alcohol is not healthy when you drink more than 1 glass a day kinda defeats the whole purpose in my opinion. But this could be a line worth exploring, at least it is new.

Then when you settle on a drink to make, you will need either a patented formula or, even better, a secret recipe that is not easily copied. Like coca-cola. The problem with a patent is that it expires after 20 years. Coca cola has kept their true recipe secret for well over 100 years. Try that with a patent.

Bottom line: tough market, so be very creative and make sure the big boys don't have an easy way to copy your idea (providing it is a good idea in the first place of course).

There can't be very many differences in alcohol other than slight subtle flavors. And price is not what sells alcohol, Grey Goose sells more than Sobieski, even though Sobieski isn't even 1/2 the price of Grey Goose. Its IMAGE that sells it.

[veikoh]

Originally Posted by jmeijers

Okay, so here's my 2 cents. I think that the liquor industry is mainly a commodity market. This means you have to compete on price. Which you won't be able to do versus the bigger companies.

Then when you settle on a drink to make, you will need either a patented formula or, even better, a secret recipe that is not easily copied. Like coca-cola. The problem with a patent is that it expires after 20 years. Coca cola has kept their true recipe secret for well over 100 years. Try that with a patent.

.

Price is not a subject for new brand. Vines for example are from cents per litre to hunders per bottle.

Vines for example are not patented at all So is whisky. Taste just depends what local water has been used to produce it.

[KyleJ]

Originally Posted by veikoh

Price is not a subject for new brand. Vines for example are from cents per litre to hunders per bottle.

Vines for example are not patented at all So is whisky. Taste just depends what local water has been used to produce it.

And some people go to the extreme with talking of the water "a mile under the lake so we get the perfect water", etc etc.

[robertras]

Like a few others above, I would suggest being a distributor first to learn the business better. But it is a powerful product in today's world, you could have a lot of success.

[Markme]

to be honest, i dont understand how being a distributor of alcohol has anything to do with the manufacturing process?

[veikoh]

I have the proposal for you if you want to go serious with this. Check my age and background from my website. The setoland "puskar" was priced only $1.20 for 0.75l bottle in black market as russian vodka was over $5. And people loved it.
As I lived there over two years (2002-2004) without any decent income, I know lot of persons there and wanted to do the documentary about them. So far I haven't been able to sell it either.
One of the part of this documentary would have been how to make "puskar" in home using potatoes as the material. They really make it over 70% of alcohol.
So, maybe we should go there together if you will find funding to do this documentary and make them famous from their "puskar"?
You have options to make a good Youtube video, I will sell my documentary to TV channels or to hire a good sales person going from bar to pub trying to sell your product. We could sell it online from eCommerce store for example. But how Australian laws regulate the alcoholic drinks having around 70% of alcholol inside?