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  1. #466
    kameron is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by orson.octavius View Post
    I can think of plenty of industries that no one would defend, but MLM is the only one where you get countless business nobodies defending the industry as though you insulted their family.
    Simply because its nonsense to think that MLM is illegitimate. People call it a pyramid scheme this and that. and really have no clue that the corporate world is structured the EXACT same way.

    Not defending MLM as I lost money in an MLM once lol. However it was my own fault. I could not effectively market the products. Its simply an old business model that is not efficient, and forgot to leave room for the "HUMAN FACTOR" of laziness and indecision.

    MLM is a legitimate business, just not efficient. Period.

    I only defend it because it can not defend itself and its frustrating to see people simply taking someone else s opinion and calling it their own.

    Do your own research, think for yourself... with Everything! Had everyone done this in the first place we would not require this thread.

    Cheers!

  2. #467
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    Rich Grads is offline Senior Member
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    Isn't That Just One Of Those Pyramids?

    What's the perception of a pyramid?

    People at the top make all the moolah and the people down below do all the work? Right? Isn't that the perception of a pyramid?

    First, let me point something out about the perception people at the top make everything and no one else does.

    In the typical corporation, do any of the Vice Presidents earn more than the President?

    No.

    How about a manager or supervisor? Would they earn more than any of the Vice Presidents?

    Of course not!

    The CHAIN OF COMMAND in any organization dictates that those above make more than those below.

    Another word for this is delegation, and it happens in every business structure in the world...EXCEPT Network Marketing.

    Let me explain.

    As far as those at the top making all the cash, the heads of America's 500 biggest companies received an aggregate 54% pay raise last year.

    What percentage pay increase did you receive?

    Terry S. Semel, CEO of Yahoo, received a $204 Million dollar pay increase last year. Could anyone else in that company, or any company for that matter, request a $204 Million pay raise? Terry S. Semel can, because he has people underneath him doing a lot of work.

    A MORE INTELLIGENT WAY TO DO BUSINESS

    In the model we suggest as being more intelligent, you, the individual, are given the same opportunity to have leverage just as every CEO does.

    Let me show you what makes the Network Marketing structure the absolute fairest structure available.

    In most network marketing companies, everyone can earn a certain percentage on the volume sold they bring to an organization. Everyone in the company can earn based on the same principles.

    In other words, if you build a larger or more productive organization than me, you would earn more than me, even if you're in my organization. In network marketing, this happens
    all the time.

    Do you know what I call that? Fair!

    Shouldn't it be that way? Study any structure. Shouldn't the most productive person in that structure make the most? Of course!

    Usually the measuring stick for compensation is an impressive resume or years of seniority. Well what does an impressive resume or years of seniority have to do with productivity?

    Nothing!

    If you bring more profits to a company, or organization then you deserve more profits than anyone, right?

    So the next time someone tells you that network marketing is "some pyramid scheme," ask them who makes the most where they work, and shoot them a copy of this post.
    Simon Prentice
    Rich GRADS Founder & Success Trainer
    http://richgrads.com
    "Discover How A Team Of Young Entrepreneurs Are Achieving Financial Freedom At Rich Grads.com!"

  3. #468
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    ryanfromrethink is offline Junior Member
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    For what it's worth, most of the things people do around here aren't that entrepreneurial. Ooh cool you affiliate market shoe racks?! Neato. You're pushing traffic to your shareasale deal site?! Shake my hand!

    MLM is no different really, I'm sure some people do fantastic with it, but I just think you're putting too much time into someone elses business.

    I know a guy, he's a chiropracter how who did MLM for multiple years, and did great. I know another lady, she's doing some Melaluka(sp?) scam, that charges people every month, and she's making rediculous amounts of money.

    But I mean Yipee, big deal. Making money isn't hard when you're scamming people and auto-charging them and sending them shipments of face cream every month.

    That's my primary problem with MLM, not that it's not entrepenurial , not that you're making someone else rich, but primarily because you're just selling junk. How the hell are you going to stand behind a crate of face cream, or whatever silly crap these people push.
    If you have any questions regarding marketing or small business seo for your business, send me a PM. I'll gladly help anyway I can!

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  4. #469
    MentorKristie is offline Junior Member
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    Many people don't understand exactly what network marketing is. People fear the unknown and unfortunately believe the opinions of others instead of thinking for themselves.

    Most legal network marketing companies have great products. Here's how you can determine which companies are scams. Ask yourself, would I still buy these products if there was not a business opportunity attached? If your answer is yes congratulations you have a legal mlm company. If you would not buy the products, run the other way!

    Many people bash mlm because they have had a bad experience or know someone who has. I think it's best to do the research and decide for yourself if it is something for you.
    I help frustrated network marketers become successful leaders and I do it for free. Regardless what company you are with. You need this Life Changing tool Today!
    http://kristieamsdell.bigmlmlies.com/?mad=44393

  5. #470
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    launchpad4entre is offline Junior Member
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    In response to the original question of why mlm is so hated, consider the pyramid scheme myth explanation below

    The Pyramid Scheme Myth
    According to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), as long as a company sells and distributes a valid product or service, that company has the right to pay and motivate it's sales force using a straight, multi-level, multi-tiered commission structure or whatever commission structure they choose. A valid product/service is a product/service individuals would buy regardless of the distribution or sales platform employed. So, the bottom line, network marketing and multilevel marketing organizations are sales organizations ..not pyramid schemes.

    So, what is a pyramid scheme?? According to Merriam Webster dictionary: a pyramid scheme is a usually illegal operation in which participants pay to join and profit mainly from payments made by subsequent participants. In other words, no product or service changes hands. Money is simply transferred from one individual to another with some organizational system in the middle direct funds. Those who get in first and rise to the top benefits from payments made by new participants coming in at the bottom. Such a system is top heavy and tends to benefit only those who get in first because eventually the system implodes leaving the most recent new participants who just got in at the bottom holding the bag.

    Pyramid scheme is also another name for Ponzi scheme. Recently, in December 2008, the nation and world witness the largest ponzi scheme in history made by investment mogul Bernard Madoff who ran a 50 billion dollar ponzi scheme. Mr Madoff ran a classic ponzi or pyramid scheme where investor thought he was investing their money in stock and bonds when, instead, he was just taking money from investor A and using it to pay investor B. Unlike these pyramid or ponzi schemes, network marketing and multilevel marketing organizations are sales organizations because a product or service changes hands when money is paid and sales commissions are paid against the sale.

    So, ask yourself, why do so many people refer to network marketing or multi-level organizations as pyramid schemes? Ans: Over the years, through mis-communications, bad experiences and/or misunderstood marketing campaigns, people have come to associate network marketing or multi-marketing with the notion of only those who get in first make money. This phrase conjures up a vision of a pyramid-like structure where only those at the top of the company is making money and those who come at the bottom, hoping to make money, are suckered into buying products and services ...thus enriching those at the top. In fact, this notion has the same look and feel as the real pyramid scheme/ponzi scheme discussed above. Except, in this case, actual products and services are changing hands.

    Now, to understand why the notion of only those who get in first make money is NOT true relative to network marketing, start by reviewing the network marketing and the multi-level marketing business model in it's purest form:

    1) Step 1: First, you join as a product distributor and learn how to sell the product. You can sell the product door to door, to friends and relative, over the internet, to companies or whatever. But, first, learn how to sell the product to the general public and generate an income commensurate with whether you are functioning in a full time or part time capacity;

    2) Step 2: Once you learn to sale and generate sufficient income, then you have the opportunity recruit and teach others how to go out and sale the product. As those you recruit and train become productive, you earn an override commission or a percentage of their monthly production volume as compensation for your training efforts;

    3) Step 3: Then, those you recruited and trained also have the opportunity to recruit and train others and you can earn commission or a percentage of their sales volume as well ...because it all feeds into your overall organizational sales volume;

    3) Step 4: Over time, because of the foundational sales skills and knowledge you established in Step 1, you will qualify as a sales manager with a focus of training and managing a sales team and earning income by overriding the sales volume of your team

    These are the foundational steps. However, unfortunately, many network marketing or multilevel marketing organizations have deviated from these basic foundational steps to the point where these steps are unrecognizable. Instead, many organizations have opted to focus on recruiting others, selling product to the recruits and encouraging new recruits to do the same. Most people hate direct sales (i.e. door to door), so it's easier to sell the business opportunity as a lead into the product sale.

    Now, although this deviates from the foundational steps, when you boil it down, this is simply an organizational sales strategy. It is not illegal in any way, shape or form because, at the end of the day, products and services are being sold and commissions are paid against the sales.

    However, over the years, this sales strategy has lead to many characterizing multilevel and network marketing organizations as pyramid schemes or scams wrapped around the notion of only those who get in first make money. This is because, in sales, only the strong survive and many underestimate the sales skills required to make it in network marketing. Or, more accurately, the sales skills required are often overlooked at network marketing business opportunity meetings. The end result: many new recruits quit after buying some products and services and the established up-lines keep putting on opportunity meetings and using this sales strategy to promote and sell products and services. In fact, on the average, 95% fail and around 5% stick.

    The 5% who stick get motivated and learn how to sale and/or recruit. So, they learn, persevere and excel at it and, as long as the network marketing company offers a valid and marketable product or services, these new recruits have just as much opportunity as those who got it first. So, this is why the notion of only those who get in first make money is NOT true. It all about the individual's willingness to learn and do what it takes to make it. Even the granddaddy of the them all, Amway, is still a valid and accessible networking marketing business opportunity if you are willing to work hard and do what it takes to succeed.

    Unfortunately, however, many fall short and, because of the hyped-up opportunity meetings, conference calls and internet webinars, more often than not, many leave with a negative emotion or feeling regarding the experience. However, if you think about, only above 5% of sales professional in any business, network marketing or otherwise, make it. It's the nature of sales.


    Summary
    So, here's bottom line with network marketing. Recruiting as a lead in to sales is a valid and legal sales strategy for network marketers ...but it's not efficient. Network marketing leaders continue to extend the opportunity to people, knowing that 95% will fail. Seasoned network marketers are wealthy because of the 5% who stick and the sale of products and services to the 95% who fail. This said, network marketing is still the simplest and most accessible "bottom-up" path to business ownership (little to no investment) given the thousands of dollars it takes to start a typical small business.
    LaunchPad4Entrepreneurs.com
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  6. #471
    Southern_Lenders is offline Senior Member
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    There was a Company by the name of YTB (Your travel business..I dont know if you guys herd of it, but its also a small publicly traded company... ANYWAY

    I found the "job" listing in the classified listing in my paper, and met with the funny, smart, and intelligent salesmen who made it seem real good. Not only would I make commission on travel sales on MY custom travel website, but I'd make money on new people I brought in. Id also get to travel anywhere in the world for free!...OH, and make my own hrs..Sweet. But they wanted 499 for a membership fee, and they claim some of that was to set up the website.

    I, like a smart person did a google search on the company and didnt like what I read, and called the man back and told him I decline.

    They are accused of being a "card mill", not a real travel agency and they mock, real honest travel agencies with real licensed agents. Needless to say, they made 400 million that year, or some ridiculously high number.

    I think if the company sold something people actually needed or wanted, and did so in an ethical manner, then there wouldnt be a problem with it, but it seems most these MLM's purposely try and push the envelope.

  7. #472
    leader4u is offline Junior Member
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    People hate MLM because they never saw success in the respective MLM they joined. Reason may me many, like wrong selection of the product, wanting to become reach soon.

    MLM is not a get rich quick scheme, its a art. Anybody can be successful in MLM if he follows the system the company has laid.

    It is important to choose the right network marketing company and follow the system, the success is guaranteed. You can predict success in MLM if you have Strong Vision, Dream and fire in the belly to achieve it.

    After many research I have got into one of the best company which are into new age internet technology products, with a all time best compensation plan, completely legal and led by experienced Team.

  8. #473
    simplyfreegas is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by leader4u View Post
    People hate MLM because they never saw success in the respective MLM they joined. Reason may me many, like wrong selection of the product, wanting to become reach soon.

    MLM is not a get rich quick scheme, its a art. Anybody can be successful in MLM if he follows the system the company has laid.

    It is important to choose the right network marketing company and follow the system, the success is guaranteed. You can predict success in MLM if you have Strong Vision, Dream and fire in the belly to achieve it.

    After many research I have got into one of the best company which are into new age internet technology products, with a all time best compensation plan, completely legal and led by experienced Team.
    I'd have more respect for MLM if they were honest. Like your post, all "MLM supporters" say that it's not a 'get rich quick scheme' yet say anyone can do it and be come rich. You've seen the presentations. ACN had Donald Trump endorse it for pete's sake.

    ACN came to a friend of mine's house. They can barely afford the rent and lifes little luxuries like TV, internet, etc. They're thrown infront of this eye-candy DVD showing luxurious lifestyles, testimonials of successful $50,000 a month couples. Donald Trump came on saying that ACN is the leader of the next revolution... video phones.

    I had to practically yell at the presenter to get out of the house because my friends were falling for it. You have to pay $500 to become an "independent representative" and pay $149 a year there after. You make a incy-wincy percentage on the video phone, and other telecommunication products you refer to other people. Where you make the REAL money is by recruiting other independent representatives and have them recruit more IR's... it's not until 6 levels down where the percentages of video phones and other telecom products even begin to pay off.

    "so.." I told the presenter, "you come to this below $40K a year family, and expect them to pay $500, then find a family or friend member to pay $500 who would then find someone to pay $500, (continuted 6 levels) and then have THAT 6th level person go out and sell video phones before making any real money? GET OUT!"

    Like someone else said in this thread, a lot of things are multi-leveled, and the more I understand that, the more I like the 'idea' of MLM, but hate the practicality. Which is why I made simplyfreegas. I have used a MLM structure, yet changed the source of the money so that people on the bottom are not coughing out dough to pay the people at the top, and if you arrive late, you haven't 'missed out' on the opportunity.

    That's my $0.02 based on my experience with MLM and why I hate it.

  9. #474
    Rich Grads's Avatar
    Rich Grads is offline Senior Member
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    SimplyFreeGas,

    I think that you will appreciate the two videos that I have linked to below. It sounds like you have had a very unprofessional approach to MLM given to you. That's unfortunate because I don't believe that all people in MLM treat it the way that unfortunately many do. In my opinion, it boils down to the level of training provided to the new associates in how to properly explain the business model and their particular business opportunity.

    Let me know what you think of the videos.

    Who's Lying About Network Marketing?

    Who's Getting Rich and Who Isn't?
    Last edited by Rich Grads; 06-06-2010 at 03:33 PM.
    Simon Prentice
    Rich GRADS Founder & Success Trainer
    http://richgrads.com
    "Discover How A Team Of Young Entrepreneurs Are Achieving Financial Freedom At Rich Grads.com!"

  10. #475
    simplyfreegas is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Grads View Post
    Let me know what you think of the videos.
    Hey Simon,

    I'm always down to check out videos and respond to them, but the videos are not working. Maybe there's another link perhaps?

    But... before I respond in more depth to you about my experiences with MLM, maybe I've just been involved in the wrong ones. I participated in World Leadership Group in 2007-2008 and I have sat through 2 presentations, one from ACN, and the other was FDI. What are your opinions on those opportunities before I reply?

    I'm going to TRY to be very open and respond to any question or situation you bring to me, but from looking around your site, and even the quote in your signature... I feel we may bump heads on a few issues, but hey, that's all good man.

    Look forward to our back and forth...

    Richard

  11. #476
    Rich Grads's Avatar
    Rich Grads is offline Senior Member
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    Hey Richard,

    The links are working now.

    The purpose of my website is to properly educate people on what Network Marketing is all about and what it can offer the 'right' people. It is available 'to' everybody, but it is clearly not 'for' everybody.

    I believe the business model is the finest available out there for anybody who wants to have a business from home. Companies come and go and I suggest that people pick the right one for them, but of course I do have my preferences. I write about how to pick a company on my website. There is a top 10 criteria to pick from.

    The thing is, you could get a presentation from one associate in a company and get a completely different presentation from another! They could have different skills and methods of presenting the opportunity. Some people just barf all over you with their opportunity speech! Some people find out what you need, want and don't want in your life first before they even present the opportunity so they can see if there is a good fit or not. Also, when an associate properly qualifies the person to see if there is a need, want or don't want in their life, then they can taylor the presentation to that particular person. I don't know what happened in your case, but I'd like to hear what version you feel you got.

    As far as my signature is concerned, I'll let the cat out of the bag right up front. The 5 steps are as follows. Start a business in network marketing starting part-time, pick a good industry to be involved in, select a top rated company to join, invest your earnings in other sources of residual income (real estate and the stock market) and finally find the right group of mentors and team members to help you accomplish your goals.

    This is the exact strategy that I'm using and has been able to allow me to work from home now by replacing my full time income.
    Simon Prentice
    Rich GRADS Founder & Success Trainer
    http://richgrads.com
    "Discover How A Team Of Young Entrepreneurs Are Achieving Financial Freedom At Rich Grads.com!"

  12. #477
    simplyfreegas is offline Senior Member
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    I don't know what happened in your case, but I'd like to hear what version you feel you got.
    Well the version I got...

    Actually first off, thanks for letting me watch the videos.

    Okay, well the version I got was a DVD presentation for ACN, so while the actual presenter was awful, the video presentation I got was pretty standard to what most people saw. And what I saw was Donald Trump saying this opportunity was the next big thing, multiple families and interviews of people making $50,000+ a month with a carefree lifestyle. There were a lot of references to how "simple" this was, and the things they used to worry about but not any more.

    You mentioned above:

    It is available 'to' everybody, but it is clearly not 'for' everybody.
    Can you tell me, which person is "financial freedom" not 'for'? I can't find anyone who would turn down $50,000 a month. I know what you're SAYING ... that the business aspect is not for everyone, because it requires work and finding customers etc... but the video presentation does a nearly non-existent job in stressing that fact.

    There are 3 reasons why ACN really annoyed me and why I may bring these feelings towards any "mlm" opportunity or video like the ones you showed me.

    1. They require a fee to join. In ACN's case, its $500 up front, and $150 a year there after.
    2. They came to my friends house, who can barely afford their lifestyle already and are in debt themselves. I'm not saying they are poor, but they are a struggling, lower middle class family.
    3. In order to make ANYWHERE NEAR CLOSE the income that would cover the start-up costs, materials, expenses and match their current paying job would involve recruiting 6-7 layers deep. This means, finding someone to also pay $500, and for that person to find someone to pay $500 ---> through 6 layers. Only then, would the % return on the products sold by that 6th layer person be meaningful.

    So when I was watching your video make it seem like I was a bad person for telling my friend to NOT do it, I got a little upset inside. But I'm only referring to MLM opportunities that require a fee to join.

    I agree with you that MLM is a great business model (hence why I'm using it), but I turn the conversation to you...

    Can you show me the compensation plan for the opportunities that you joined?

    Thanks.

    Richard

  13. #478
    Rich Grads's Avatar
    Rich Grads is offline Senior Member
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    Richard,

    So it sounds like the ACN presenter was a goof Ok. Also, the presentation just talked about the money, the freedom, blah blah blah without telling the person the work really involved. I agree. This is something that is really missing in this industry for sure. Unfortunately, when that tiny nugget is missed, people develop the "lottery" mindset and they overestimate what they can accomplish in their first year and as soon as they get a few "no's" they fold up like a lawn chair! However, most people "underestimate" what is possible in 4 years. If you understand the "penny doubling every day for a month" example, you would realize that it takes some time for the magic of compounding and leverage to start to kick in. Unfortunately, most people can't stick it out and be patient. Trust me, there were many times when I wanted to quit, but you've got to stick it out if you want the payday MLM promises.

    I tell people that if they work hard and smart for 4 years, they can have the lifestyle they want. I tell people that "I can show you the door, but you have to walk through it."

    To your points:

    1. When you join a network marketing business, you are starting a business. Usually you order a training kit. In my company it is $30 bucks which gives you tons of online training, books, audios, reading material, etc. This is a value for sure for what you get. Then you pick a starter kit that matches your budget and your customers needs, because if you are going to sell certain products, you need to have samples (like any business) and you also need to use the product yourself, so you will also be consuming some of your starter kit. You also need to say that you've used the products as well. I really have no problem with that logic. But I guess that would be particular to the type of company that you joined. I'm in health and wellness. I picked that industry not only because I think it is the one with the most potential, but because I'm passionate about optimal health. You wouldn't need a starter kit with 5 ACN video phones to give away as samples But I have no problem with a small investment to get started with a real business - most do! And this is a 'real' business.

    2. This point sounded like you may have felt like the presenter was "preying" on someone who couldn't really afford it. I could see how it may have looked that way. I have seen the company I am with open up in countries like Mexico, Korea, Singapore, and other poorer asian countries and the people who have little, to no money go out and sponsor 50 people in a month. It's insane and fascinating at the same time. They don't have as many hang-ups as north americans about network marketing. They absolutely love it because they haven't had that type of opportunity where for a small investment, they can go into business for themselves. So to me, the decision has to be left to the person in front of the presentation, while of course, doing their due diligence to make sure that it is a legitimate company, etc etc.

    3.This sounds like the compensation plan was not very fair to new distributors. That is going to be something that is particular to each and every company. Obviously you want a fair compensation plan that doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. That's why it is important to understand how you will be compensated before you get involved so you can make the right decision.

    Curious, why would you want to see the compensation plan for the company I have joined? Are you sponsorable ?

    Cheers!
    Simon Prentice
    Rich GRADS Founder & Success Trainer
    http://richgrads.com
    "Discover How A Team Of Young Entrepreneurs Are Achieving Financial Freedom At Rich Grads.com!"

  14. #479
    simplyfreegas is offline Senior Member
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    Well I'm sure ACN isn't a good opportunity then.

    The reason why I asked about your compensation plan was to compare it to ACN's... I want to know the possible scenarios that are needed to have $10,000... $25,000... $50,000 a month income etc...

    Like, for the opportunity you're in, do you need to recruit anyone to get a higher % of THEIR sales vs your sales?

    I know with ACN, you were selling products like the video phone which needed a monthly commitment (hence the residual income)... so how does selling products like health drinks etc... bring a residual income without constantly selling?

    Lots of mini-questions from me.. hehe.

  15. #480
    Rich Grads's Avatar
    Rich Grads is offline Senior Member
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    Great questions Richard,

    The company that I'm with, there isn't a % system used. It is a binary compensation plan that is based on sales volume - then every week, that volume converts to commissions payable. Kinda hard to explain by typing, that's why I have included a link to my webtour that has a video that explains the compensation plan.

    On the link, there is a video called "Compensation Plan." It is very clear to understand and I think it will cover your "mini questions."

    Compensation Plan Video

    To answer your one specific question, one of the things I love about selling nutritional products is that people re-order them every month because it is a consumable product - which is what you want in order to create the continuous income! I may introduce someone to a specific product, but then they may go online next month and order a bunch more, even without me knowing it!. Most of my customers are on a monthly autoship program so they just open up their door every 4 weeks and there is their products. I have my supplements show up every 4 weeks too. Because I have a team of people who are all using, sharing and recommending the products, I am truly duplicating myself.

    I'll look forward to hearing what you think of the video.
    Simon Prentice
    Rich GRADS Founder & Success Trainer
    http://richgrads.com
    "Discover How A Team Of Young Entrepreneurs Are Achieving Financial Freedom At Rich Grads.com!"

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