new idea(s), need feedback

[mxer210]

Hello,
I jsut finished my store, and looking for some other opportunities to learn more about business. I came with 2 different ideas, one more of a marketing idea fo rmy store, and the other would be a completely new idea.

1) The Apple iPod and Apple iPod mini are big crazes in the audio world and sites like www.ipodlounge.com and many specialized store like www.everythingipod.com cater to the huge ipod following. I think the creative Zen Micro, http://www.purefiveaudio.com/advance...p?keywords=zen
is going ot become a popular alternative for the iPod mini. Has radio, voice recorder, an extra gigabyte then mini ipod, smaller then mini ipod, can record radio aswell, and ultimately, is cheaper than the apple mini. Ithink alot of the apple haters and PC followers will turn to this product and it will become quite popular. Now that i've explained what it is, the idea would be launch an online community, (like www.ipodlounge.com) which would be for teh creative zen micro and creative mp3 players. It would have forum, articles, reviews, and would link to my store where the accessories and zen could be purchased. I researched and no such communities exist, and creative plans on spending atleast 100,000,000 in advertising so the zen should soon become quite popular.

2) www.tremor.com is an online community, that is owned by procter and gamble. What it does is allows big companies, mainly procter and gamble, but also other big companies like coke, aol, and major music artists, so give samples, prereleases, and prototypes of their products and allow teens to test them. The teens get the product in the mail, and send backa review. I read an articel on inc.om and they said tremors success is not in the feedback, but in the word of mouth because of teens huge purchasing power. tremor has around 300,000 members(who area all teens), so i think they are too bigto compete with, so Im considering doing something more specific for small-medium sized companies. I was thinking of maybe video games, software, computer hardware, small business or electronics.

What idea do you guys think is best? first, second, both, or niether? Feedback would be appreciated, thanks.

sorry it was long.

[Kelvin]

I like both ideas, expecially the 2nd one. I am a member of Tremors.com and I really don't particpate on the site, but I go there every blue moon.

[mxer210]

Oh.....
[this one's for you jimmiejo]
Anohter Idea I have is to create a creative advertising design agency, modeled after www.cpbmiami.com. I would provide a cheap alternative to the more expensive advertising agencies and specialize in print ads and creative advertising ideas.

[Kelvin]

Well, to me, all of your ideas sound great! and the would make good business.

[Immmm]

I believe your tremor spin off would have the most potential. Especially if your focusing on the electronics industry.

Two issues though. Keeping the members coming back to your site. As Kelvin said he only returns once in a "blue moon"

and secondly having enough clients to distribute enough technology on a regular basis.

[jimmiejo]

Hey Ryan; in response to your proposed agency plan, I've been in ad school for two years and am about to graduate in a couple months and am no where near as good as cpb or any of the other big agencies out there. Crispin, Porter & Bogusky along with all the other greats, Leo Burnett, David Ogilvy, Luke Sullivan, have spent dozens of years in the ad industry, and that's why they're as good as they are.

These agencies are massive and most are owned as part of a network of dozens of agencies worldwide and have anywhere from 500 to 3,000 employees in one office.

To be honest, you can't just put together an ad agency. You have to have experience, and be a jaw dropping art director and/or copywriter. And that takes years to develop. There are tons of small ad shops out there with a small creative team but they focus more on graphic design than advertising. And most of them are terrible anyways.

If you want to, post some design and ad work you've done, if you've tried any yet, and I can give you some feedback and art direction advice.

If you wanted to make waves in the ad industry, the best thing you could do is go to ad school, get an internship at a big agency and absorb everything that is happening around you. I did an internship at a small shop a couple years ago and thought I was great. Now that I look back, I sucked compared to the art directors there. I'm much better now, from what I've learned and developed my creative and strategic skills. At an agency like CP+B, I would volunteer my time just to be in the presence of them.

So all in all, you shouldn't really consider trying to open an ad agency, because you're still young and don't have any experience in the industry. I've run my graphic design firm and a magazine for the past four years and all of it is a walk in the park compared to art directing in an ad agency. But you can develop your skills and learn the ins and outs of advertising if you studied in college and read all of the great books out there, and put a portfolio together that would win you a Cannes award or a Pencil at the One Show.

If you would like to learn a bit more about the ad industry pick up these books, which are standard reads in ad school:

Hey Whipple Squeeze This!
The Copy Workshop Workbook
Cutting Edge Advertising
Ogilvy on Advertising

Some great magazines that are industry standards are:

AdAge
Marketing Magazine
Communication Arts Get your hands on the Advertising Annuals from the past few years, they come out every December.
How Magazine

There are so many other elements of advertising that an art director and copywriter must learn before they even have a chance to dip their toe into the crazy world of advertising. So I'd say, if you're really interested into getting into the ad industry, determine whether you want to art direct or copywrite, because only two people create each ad as a team, a writer and art director, and pursue further education. One of the best ad schools out there, which I wish I went to instead of my current college is, Miami Ad School, whose students are lucky enough to have folks from CP+B teach there, because the agency partnered with the school and they are both based in Miami.

I'd be glad to mentor you Ryan and help you put a good book together, if you are serious about getting into the ad world and wish to pursue further education. Let me know. Cheers.

[mxer210]

well, crispin porter posts projects and freelancers do them, like marklaita(marklaita.com) does alot of there work. I was actually planning on doing something like that.... soi would be kind managing it all, and only deisgning when needed or making image adjustments.

[jimmiejo]

yeah but those freelance projects are bid on by some of the best art directors out there. if and when they win the job they are assigned a budget from the account executive and they then create concepts. when the creative director and account exec. approve the piece to be presented, the art director and copywriter present the concepts to the client. theyll give a yay or nay and suggest revisions if they like one of the concepts. then the art director hires a photographer, models, etc... for the ad and directs the layout and composition of the ad through the design house. then the client has to sign off on the final ad and it hits the press.

mark laita isn't an art director hes just a photographer. and he is an award winning photographer whos probably been at it for years.

by your response you sound like you want to do some graphic design, not advertising art direction. only look at cp+b for inspiration from their ads, don't look to work for/with/or against them until you've put a great book together in a few years.

[mxer210]

I stil think taking offers and outsourcing them to designers is a pretty good idea. I'm not trying to get rich here..... it's more for the experience as I'm still quite young. I'll scratch off teh advertising idea then, after your posts.

I attached an ad i made, targeted towards youth/teens who are into extreme sports, which is what my store kinda is. threw it together in response to you requesting to see an ad. My first one too, so dont expect much. by the way, it would be used in a magazine, and just an example.

I think my tremor idea would have the most potential.

[jimmiejo]

Thanks for posting an ad ryan. I know you're a big cp+b fan so I scanned an article I had from business 2.0 and sent it to your email as a pdf.

Now your ad. First the headline; I don't understand it or see how it ties into your market or your product. If I covered up the closer at the bottom of the page and read the headline, I'd think it was for a market research firm, that could tell me all about the demographics and psychographics of male teenagers who enjoy extreme sports.

Art direction: its a good clean pic, but has nothing to do with purefiveaudio. I think it would be safe to say that you searched for a pic on gettyimages, or similar stock photo site, and then threw a headline and logo on it and called it a day. I'm sure you didn't draw any thumbnails, you probably went straight into Photoshop after you found the stock pic.

Here's how to fix the ad. You have to tell me what is purefiveaudio's Unique Selling Proposition. What makes you guys different and/or better than all of the other electronic sites out there? Then tell me, are you trying to sell a specific product or purefiveaudio.com? There's a huge difference, because as your ad stands right now I think you only sell zen micro mp3 players and headphones to snowboarders.

You then have to determine who your target market is and what they do other than listen to mp3 players. Write down all of the things your target customer would do in a day. ex. Adam an 18 year old who loves to read maxim and watch mtv and currently lives with his parents and works part-time at the gap while he prepares to enter college to study computer programming.

Then write down everything you know about your company, products, how you deliver your product, etc... Every single thing you can think of about your company and products.

Your goal is to then take a point from the list about your products/company and a point from your consumer profile/research and put them together. You'll read about this in the pdf I sent you. It's a simple venn diagram, two big circles that overlap to give you a center area, used by Alex Bogusky, that I've convinced most of my school to use, and I use for every brainstorming session.

Great ads don't try to sell a product, they try to connect on an emotional level with their target consumer so they remember it from all of the clutter out there. Whether that emotional connection makes them laugh, cry, get offended, or relate to something, it will have a better chance of getting their attention than the same ol' stock photo and headline.

There are so many directions to go, and hundreds of great ads that could be written for your store. If you make that venn diagram and at least read "Hey Whipple Squeeze This" you will be coming up with some good concepts. A picture and a headline mean nothing, it's the concept behind the ad that connects the two and makes me either want to buy from you, or flip the page.

Keep going Ryan. Read that book, make that venn diagram, write dozens of headlines, draw dozens of thumbnails, and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[mxer210]

The image was not random, I spent over 2 hours gathering over 30 photos which would be great for an ad. I chose that one because I think a snowboarding picture is good because i need a picture that attracts potential customers, and mine like extreme sports. I do agree with you and think I should use a different tagline though and it'd be better, something like a caution sign below that says "Caution: Music Required" or "The unspoken rule for going extreme: p5a.com". I'm trying to get teens to become interested in listening to music alot (which alot dont), and use some of my electronics my store offers. I actually had it all planned out before searching for a picture, and designing it. . Thanks for the tips jimmiejo. I don't have plans to start an advertising company any more.......

What do you guys think about the other ideas?

[cheng]

Ryan would like to help you but not sure how. Sim Wong Ho (Founder of Creative) is really supportive when it comes to entrepreneurship over here. He tries to be in organizations that helps startups kick start their business. (he is of course busy most of the time). I could get into the ASME (association of small mid entre) and elect him as my mentor but eventually didnt lol. Most of the time he will be busy and wont be able to answer my emails. Anyway he has fired up marketing plans and wants to grab the mp3 market shares in Singapore and around the world which is currently dominated by Ipod.

Maybe i could hook you up with him or something lol.

[billion21]

Ry--

I'm putting together a HUGE JV deal. If you want to come along and join the party, email me! I could use a great young mind like you on my team!

Don't let these 'little' guys distract you from your dreams kiddo! All of your ideas WILL bear fruit. Just put some dedication into them and the rest will be history!

[billion21]

Ry-- You know me, I'm always up for new ventures! You are so perfect to be a part of the JV I'm doing.

You know how EVERYONE needs to raise capital. Well I'm trying to set up a learning institution so that I can make it all happen. Along with a team of self-made millionaires/entrepreneurs.

Let me know if you want to come along for the ride! You're always welcome!

Please do IM me!