Having a website made

[pboychuk]

Hmm,

I think I am finally going to give in and hire someone to build a website for me. What I am wondering is what is the best way to show the designer what I want done. I am sure there are a ton of ambiguities between customer and programmer when websites are made, and I want to limit this.

[rejoice]

draw a picture... a sketch... just explain it best you can and wait for revisions to get really specific

[gregdavidson]

If there's a website out there with similar functions or a similar look for what you want then that would be the best way. However, if you have to "baby" the designer from the very start with really small details then my advice is to fire them and hire somebody else. Also, beware of these cheap web designer who will take your project even though they know they can't do it. Never pay a designer anything until they're completely done. Tell them to host the website on their own server while they're working on it. The only upfront payment you should give them is through escrow but I wouldn't do that until I verified that they can actually make what I'm asking for.

[robousy]

I have two pieces of advice.

1. Design the website look using powerpoint and photoshop. Include all the pages, links etc.

2. I had a great experience hiring a team of professionals using Guru.com – Find freelancers at the world’s largest online service marketplace. . Essentially you can pay technical experts in non-us countries to do your work. India and Pakistan for example, their skills are similar to Western programmers, but your money goes a lot further.

Also, with regards to the previous post on payment, I paid 50% upfront and had no trouble. Although the advice is probably good, you are not always going to get screwed.

[zharlene]

Yup, creating a mock-up for the designer would be a great way for them to simply code everything you have on the image plan.

I suggest you create the mock-up, send it to a coder and tell them to simply code everything and add "blank" images. Then get a graphic designer to fill-in the images for you. Or if you can deal with Photoshop/Illustrator, you can do the graphics yourself. It'll be a lot cheaper this way.

I personally feel you shouldn't pay anything upfront. A lot of people get scammed this way because not only are you divulging your idea to a potential scammer, they get to have money they didn't earn yet...Esp. if it's a large sum. You can always try Escrow as a payment method.

But if the designer's got a huge, impressive portfolio then you've got nothing to lose.

[matt_15]

Go to a very large reputable web-design firm. Speak to atleast 10 of their previous clients to see if they are as good as they say they are. Get a legal expert to write out some strict "service legal aggreement's", and then you will be safe.

[chrispalko]

If you go to a "very large reputable web-design firm", you will be broke after your website is done. There are plenty of freelancers and smaller design firms who can get the job done at a fraction of the cost.

As far as presenting your idea, I would suggest making sketch. One of my current clients lives south of me far enough that it is definitely not cost efficient to drive to meet every time he needs a design change or a page added. So, he draws what he wants on a piece of paper, scans it, and sends it to me in PDF format. Now, you don't have to use PDF format, but drawing, scanning, and sending is a good way to do it. Even when we met in person, he sketched it all out on paper.

As far as paying upfront or not, there are pros and cons to both. If you pay upfront, that shows the designer that you are serious and not wasting their time. If you the designer offers for you to pay later, then that gives you more peace of mind. you have to look at it from all perspectives.

Anyways, you could always hire me ...seriously.

[Joshua Jones]

Hmm,
I think I am finally going to give in and hire someone to build a website for me. What I am wondering is what is the best way to show the designer what I want done. I am sure there are a ton of ambiguities between customer and programmer when websites are made, and I want to limit this.

That's a really good idea pboychuk - and some great recommendations have been made. I'd ask a couple of things of your designer to "check their competency" out.

Generally speaking, what I've found is that you will need to plan your site out in great detail, and if at all possible, have all of your content ready to go (at least in draft form) before you contract with any particular designer. Making sketches, PPT presentations and even basic Word documents to convey your concept is a great idea. Having examples of other sites and specifically what you like about them or want to integrate into your project.

On the other end of the scope, you could just make the designer come up with a creative concept or two all on their own and see what comes out, but the best bet is to front load them with as many details as possible!

Also, depending on the complexity of your site, you may want a designer doing the graphics, a programmer doing the back end and a front-end developer to make your user interface and functionality. Why? Simply because, each segment is very specialized, and it's so rare to find a real "webmaster" with all of those skills, that would be cost effective.

In addition, get lots of bids - don't be the guy that says they are going to get 3 bids and never gets more than 2. Get 10 - be demanding, have folks sign NDAs if need be to keep your site concept secure.

Lastly, make sure you have adequate protection in your agreement. You don't wan the designer(s) reusing your concept for other clients, so basically, you want to own the source files when all is said and done.

There's even more stuff you may want to consider, and you are welcome to connect with me to discuss this matter more

[flnazrael]

Just my .02 -

1) Asking a designer/developer to work on nothing upfront is not a good idea. #1, it's not fair and I doubt the guy who suggested this would appreciate being asked to deliver upfront work for free. Or, if he's in retail, to let his customers walk out of the store and pay later. If a company has no money from you, they have no motivation to work - I know it seems like the other way around, but that's not always the case.

2) There are pros and cons to outsourcing - I've outsourced in about 15 countries to over 60 people in the past, some results were outstanding, some results left me huddled in the fetal position wishing I'd just paid an American because I was having so many headaches with shoddy work.

3) You don't have to worry about anyone stealing your idea. I'm currently involved in a project where I had to sign an NDA just to hear the concept, then sign another contract when I actually started. Trust me, I'm not saying jack to anybody because I will get sued.

4) Detailed specs, flow charts, sketches, and example sites are always enough to preserve a concept. Sometimes, people also find that they like suggestions and design concepts from the provider even better than their own.

[rogercbryan]

Hmm,

I think I am finally going to give in and hire someone to build a website for me. What I am wondering is what is the best way to show the designer what I want done. I am sure there are a ton of ambiguities between customer and programmer when websites are made, and I want to limit this.

Look up RFP's (request for proposal). Also, buying a book on proposal and/or flow sheet writing isn't a bad idea. This may sound like over kill to some... but the more info you give your developer the more likely you are to get what you want.

I speak from experience. I tried to give a simple 'idea' to a few different developers about what I wanted for Welcome to GoGets!... and you can see the disaster I ended up with. When I wrote my current RFP I ended up with 13 pages of info as well as a handful of addendum's. It is very important that you write your RFP correctly. It will save you time and money.

[rogercbryan]

Go to a very large reputable web-design firm. Speak to atleast 10 of their previous clients to see if they are as good as they say they are. Get a legal expert to write out some strict "service legal aggreement's", and then you will be safe.

This isn't bad advice... it may be a little to much if you are working on a project that is less then $10K. With that being said you can never do to much due diligence. I would recommend going to 3 freelancers and 2 major firms. Check out a handful of their previous projects..


**From previous post I made**
One other thing that is often overlooked. You need to make sure that YOU understand the extent of the programming that it will require to build your site. Having a basic understanding of database (SQL) terms and functions will help you to communicate with your vendors.

Personally I stay away from freelancers now.. they are pain in the ass..

[pboychuk]

Well that was a lot to digest, But, I definately like the idea of dividing the work between a few specialized programmers. I probably will go with a smaller company or freelancer to satisfy my budget, mainly because I dont want someone to charge me everytime i need a kink worked out in the site, and I feel an honest freelancer or smaller company would be willing to provide some free customer support after the fact. As far as NDA, I wouldn't be worried about exposing the content of the site as i am fairly certain this info would not need to be revealed when asking for the design or programming. But, do I need to protect the actual source such that it could not be sold again?

I am using this as a learning experience as I have never hired out work for a large project, however, i do have a few sites 3-4 which I have created from templates, so i do have some knowledge of web design. But in short, what I want to have done is:
A) get a fairly simple design that is pleasing to the eye, as long as i can pull this up in dreamweaver and easily edit content then all is good.
B) have a programmer create an interface on the site that allows users to basically create their own page. No my idea is not another myspace.

Most importantly, I would like the information to be able to flow easily, such that if a user created their page, it would be automatically listed in the index under a category or whatever.

As far as actually creating something with photoshop i am not sure if I could do this, however, the method I think I will use to propose the design is write up a detailed description of the layout etc.. and then find some similar sites to model after.

Most importantly I want this to be a learning experience, I will never survive on $50 templates, as their capability is limited in some instances.

So I will be working on the idea and present it to some YE web designers.

Thanks for all the advice.

[flnazrael]

But, do I need to protect the actual source such that it could not be sold again?

A copyright/ownership clause in the contract will take care of this.

[gregdavidson]

There is so much competition in this market that most web designers will agree to work upfront or with money in escrow. How would you feel if you started a $2000 project and paid the web designer $500 (25% upfront), later to find that the web designer is incompetent and has a fake portfolio. I've hired about 25 web designers so I have "plenty" of experience dealing with freelancers. Obviously you have very little experience. Also, a copyright/ownership clause means nothing unless the web designer lives within driving distance of you. If you hire a web designer from some place like India they could take your website and resell it hundreds of times over as a turnkey website.

[flnazrael]

There is so much competition in this market that most web designers will agree to work upfront or with money in escrow.

If they're desperate.... on most projects I require a 50% retainer and have plenty of work. Escrow isn't as bad, but no escrow and no upfront are bad terms. Some of my regular clients have paid me 100% upfront, especially with Search Engine Optimization where I sell blocks of hours. Of course a previous client already has an established level of trust.

You forget, web design and graphic work is easy to steal too. A friend of mine got ripped out of $5,000 because he did a bunch of graphic work on good faith. Now the business he did it for has it wrapped all over their fleet of cars and drives it around the city. Still haven't paid the designer a dime.

If someone really needs the work, or is just trying to build a portfolio, maybe. But you have to be careful of people who are way too eager to take on projects at any price and at any terms.

How would you feel if you started a $2000 project and paid the web designer $500 (25% upfront), later to find that the web designer is incompetent and has a fake portfolio.

Bad. That's why my prospective clients see live sites, not screenshots, and the sites have a link back to my homepage on them (in the 99% of cases where the site owner allows it). Hard to fake that.

I've hired about 25 web designers so I have "plenty" of experience dealing with freelancers. Obviously you have very little experience.

Besides dozens of projects involving blogs, ecommerce, static, ASP, PHP, graphic design, Search Engine Optimization, AdSense sites... and outsourcing work to over 15 countries, at least 60 providers... no.

Also, a copyright/ownership clause means nothing unless the web designer lives within driving distance of you. If you hire a web designer from some place like India they could take your website and resell it hundreds of times over as a turnkey website.

There are international NDAs as well, I have one with a firm in Argentina. Laws vary.

Also, a secrecy/non-compete/NDA/copyright/etc agreement is without question valid in all 50 states... which, technically, Hawaii is not in driving distance from, say, Florida.