Selling an idea to a company

**mdfox31** · 04-02-2008 09:56 AM

Hi all,
I am a first time poster here. I have been on this board for the past few weeks, but have never posted... just looking. I recently developed a "Green" idea. Since the world is going green, I thought that this might work. Unfortunately, because I do not have any legal backing for my idea yet, I am not going to get into much detail. I have searched for similar patents and trademarks for my idea, but have not found anything exact. What I am looking to do is fairly simple, but has not been done yet. No product has it, but a demographic could use it and benefit from it. I have a target market (a list of companies) who might be interested in my idea. I have no use for it unless I sell it to someone. Again I do not have my idea patented or trademarked yet.

Does anyone have advice on how to go about selling my idea to a company. Do I contact the company directly? DO I contact one company at a time or my entire list? Do I patent my idea first? What else!? I am at a loss and would love to get this idea out there, it could really help our planet!

As for reassurance, I have talked with many people who use this type of product and they all said it is a great idea and they would love to see this and they would use it.

**akula** · 04-02-2008 05:32 PM

"ideas" are not a legally recognised type of property. they can not be bought or sold.
get your IP issues sorted, and then, maybe you can explore the possibility of a sale or lisensing arrangement

**jasaunders** · 04-02-2008 11:12 PM

What do you mean by "green?" Is it for energy efficiency, end of life management, restriction of hazardous substances, Cradle to Cradle Life Cycle Impact, emmissions?
There are different standards, regulations, and laws based on what you mean by "green", as well as the product and state/country.
If you were more specific, I could offer more specific advice, as my work revolves around environmentally friendly products.

**ron komorowski** · 04-03-2008 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by akula

"ideas" are not a legally recognised type of property. they can not be bought or sold.
get your IP issues sorted, and then, maybe you can explore the possibility of a sale or lisensing arrangement

Hello Akula...hope all is well. This idea selling stuff is very important for all here to know. First, the toy industry generally does not work with patents. In the U.S. there are about 200 especially known toy inventors. In general these people are "by invitation only" as the toy inventing field is FLOODED.

Toy companies and these inventors generally work on a "handshake" because by the time a patent issues a "hot" toy idea has come and gone. The toy companies will not rip off an inventor as generally because they don't want to ruin the resource. The toy industry relies on outside sources.

I have been through the process with a toy invention with dealing with Mattel and Shellcore toys. I have a very large toy concept that will be launched soon.

That being said, other companies will work this way too especially if you straight up say that if you guys, company B aren't interested then you will try company A (the larger competitors) (Number 2 company will always treat you better, company 1 really doesn't need your idea as much)

Once a licensing agreement is signed, it should be set up to continue if the patent does not issue because you offered the jump on the market...you could have done it yourself, hence, you gave something of value still.

The other way without a patent pending etc. is to get yourself an executive job with your idea. Say...hey look...my idea, I have the background knowledge, I'm best to execute or a strategic part of the team. Get that good job with a bonus agreement. I did just this and was offered two direct jobs from Fortune 100 companies.

Sometimes companies are closed to you to submit like Johnson& Johnson until a patent issues. Other times you will be asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement which states they can take your idea and just have it or they can pay you if they wish.

Simply, if you are good, smart, innovative and a fit for them they will offer you something nice as they want you on the team.

Now for patents. In the U.S. we have a "provisional patent" application. For $100 you file a quick document that proves you had the idea first. You have one year to file a full patent app or lose your date of the idea and the protection you have started to apply to. After this application you can call your idea "patent pending" Provisionals are only available in the U.S. and may not last much longer as pressure from the WIPO is mounting to make the same as the rest of the world.

If you can just go with a design patent the process can be as little as $2000 with an attorney and issue in 9 months for an extra fee of about $800 as it is called "made special"

Last way, and this is what a lot of those inventor help companies will do. You can file a disclosure document for about $10. $30 if you want a return receipt. In the U.S. it is "first to invent" The rest of the world is "first to file a patent application"

A disclosure document lasts two years. When you file your U.S. patent you can refer your patent protection start date back to this date if you wish. What this does basically is have your idea filed with the USPTO in case you need the USPTO "as a witness" in later situations. The USPTO will not even look at a provisional or disclosure document until you file a patent.

If you go with a disclosure doc, you can say to a company you have sought intellectual property protection.

I have a disclosure document, 3 provisional patent apps and two full patent apps.

In any case, you will have to create "leverage" to your side and show a company why they need you and want to hold onto you so the competition does not get you. Patents are not sure things by any means and with the global market they can be gotten around even strategically.

The marketing research is so very important too for the companies to respect you and to be impressed by you and show why they need YOU, not just your idea and run.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anymore advice. I'm not an expert, but I know some from experience. Good luck!!!

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home

**akula** · 04-03-2008 06:23 PM

thx for the post
it all sounds interesting
i particularly appreciate ur points about patents
my experience with commercialisation of ip is a little bit different
as a lawyer, i'm interested in the technicalities of a hypothetical contract for the "sale of an idea", and from this technical perspective, it's clear that an "idea" is legally an ineffectual form of consideration

...everything else like disclosure written on the back of a napkin, rights in a patent, trade secrets or a bunch of drawings in a manila folder will suffice because all these things are a type of property (whereas ideas are not)...in other words, if someone wants to sell an idea, the challange is to convert the idea into a type of property or right

**ron komorowski** · 04-03-2008 10:15 PM

You make sense Akula. You talk about how to make an idea a tangible. Again I do talk as you say, a rebel cowboy, yes that is me...and someone like you with brains has to put a leash on me so I don't go chasing trucks like a mad dog.

Success will come by sharing knowledge and wisdom. That is what is supposed to happen here in this forum. That is how we all become better. I have VERY FAR to go yet and always need to learn.

I think you and I pretty much gave all the right answers for this post with our combined knowledge. Thank you for the tips!

My patent knowledge is just general. Maybe I studied 20 books on patents in the last 15 yrs. Anyone can do that but there is so much more that I cannot advise on with patents...way too technical! They say patent attorneys don't know patents until they litigate the claims of one in court. Then they finally learn. I believe this to hold much truth. Have a nice day!

Ron

**mdfox31** · 04-04-2008 10:10 PM

Thanks Ron! I am lacking knowledge because this is my first idea that I would like to get out there. I am curious, (I know it depends on the idea) but what type of compensation (if any) could I expect? How would I work out an agreement for this?

The "Green" aspect of my product will reduce a ton of litter.

**BusinessAdviser** · 04-04-2008 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by ron komorowski

You make sense Akula. You talk about how to make an idea a tangible. Again I do talk as you say, a rebel cowboy, yes that is me...and someone like you with brains has to put a leash on me so I don't go chasing trucks like a mad dog.

Success will come by sharing knowledge and wisdom. That is what is supposed to happen here in this forum. That is how we all become better. I have VERY FAR to go yet and always need to learn.

I think you and I pretty much gave all the right answers for this post with our combined knowledge. Thank you for the tips!

My patent knowledge is just general. Maybe I studied 20 books on patents in the last 15 yrs. Anyone can do that but there is so much more that I cannot advise on with patents...way too technical! They say patent attorneys don't know patents until they litigate the claims of one in court. Then they finally learn. I believe this to hold much truth. Have a nice day!

Ron

To add to that, Ron, most attorneys actually don't understand IP because it's such a specialized area of law. Copyright, Patent, and Trademark law aren't required courses, and most law students avoid them as electives in law school. As a result, very few attorneys out there understand them. Just a little random info.

**BusinessAdviser** · 04-04-2008 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by mdfox31

Thanks Ron! I am lacking knowledge because this is my first idea that I would like to get out there. I am curious, (I know it depends on the idea) but what type of compensation (if any) could I expect? How would I work out an agreement for this?

The "Green" aspect of my product will reduce a ton of litter.

More than anything, it depends on your ability to negotiate.