LLC: EIN number, do I need one?

[dmetcalf50]

Seriously before you start talking shit learn your stuff.

You stated that if someone sells lemonade on the corner they are a sole proprietor, meaning you would use your SSN for your individual tax filing.

Like I had stated before, when you file as a single member LLC (SMLLC) you have the option to be taxed as a corporation or a disregarded entity. If you don't have any employees you do not even need an EIN, however to open a bank account you will so you should have an EIN.

If you are a multimember LLC you have the same option.

In a single member LLC, when you file for an EIN through the IRS you are given two numbers. When you file for your taxes, you are being taxed as a sole proprietor but the legal entity of your business is not a sole proprietorship it is an LLC. Therefore, you are given two numbers.

You are correct on the sole proprietor stuff you are talking about, but your incorrect about the SMLLC stuff. The IRS automatically gives a SMLLC being taxed as a disregarded entity two numbers.

So, "I hope this makes more sense to everyone, whether the original poster, passive reader, or OTHER'S MISINTERPRETING POSTERS."

[BusinessAdviser]

The question comes down to whether the original poster has employees or intends to have employees:

"If an SMLLC has or intends to have employees, the EIN rules are different. If there is or will be employment tax reporting, both the single member owner and the SMLLC will need an EIN ... [a total of two TINs]. If the SMLLC has already received an EIN for reasons set out in the above paragraph, then only the owner will need to file the SS-4 and be assigned an EIN."

This is to what you must be referring. Is that correct? I thought we both assumed no employees, since we suggested the EIN being unnecessary (except for opening a bank account in the name of the LLC, for example), which would not be the case if there were plans for employees.

Make sense? Or do you disagree?

[BusinessAdviser]

A bit more on it:

"IRS regulations require a single member limited liability company that is (1) owned by one individual and (2) has or will have employees before January 1, 2009 to have two Employer Identification Numbers (EIN). One EIN is assigned to the individual owner (as a sole proprietor) and one is assigned to the LLC.

If the SMLLC does not intend to have employees, then an EIN is not necessary. It should use the name and Taxpayer Identification Number of the single member owner for federal tax purposes. However, if a SMLLC, whose taxable income and loss will be reported by the single member owner, nevertheless needs an EIN to open a bank account or if state tax law requires the SMLLC to have a federal EIN, then the SMLLC can apply for and obtain an EIN. If the SMLLC has no employees, it will not use this EIN for any federal tax reporting purpose."

[dmetcalf50]

I agree and that's all I was trying to tell him the entire time.

You just came at me telling me that I was wrong when the IRS gave me two numbers.

[BusinessAdviser]

No, you were definitely not wrong when the IRS gave you two numbers, since you provided that you had or expected to have employees, but you WERE wrong in providing him the same advice when he was in a different situation. I say that only because we offered information to the original poster on the assumption that he would have no employees. If either of us had been under a different assumption, we would not have both agreed that an EIN is not necessary, except for things like opening bank accounts in the name of the LLC and such. Your situation was correct, but it was inapplicable to the original poster's situation, at least to the extent that two EIN numbers were needed. Either way, we got him to where he needed to be, in terms of understanding, and that's all that matters, but I don't go back on my comment that when you tell someone they are "wrong...completely wrong," unless they are actually wrong, and you are right, you come across as extremely ignorant and self-righteous. Have a great evening.

[dmetcalf50]

lol go read my posts again. I told him if he wasn't having any employees he doesn't need an EIN but to open a bank account he would.

You said that I was wrong because I had an EIN and a sole proprietor number and that you use your SSN.

Then after you figured out I was right you tried to make it look like you were right because you can't admit you were wrong.

Don't try bashing me when your the one who is wrong. Learn your information before you talk.

In this case, if your a LLC and you make money, you would have a bank account for tax reasons. To open a bank account you would need an EIN, if you file for an EIN you get two numbers.

Don't be a jackass man. I am trying to help him out and your just trying to be mr. rightguy. Grow up.

[dmetcalf50]

This is not necessary, and probably not even a good idea. You should have an EIN for your LLC, but then no "sole proprietor tax ID number," since you are not a sole proprietor, nor are you taxed as a sole proprietor. You're taxed as an individual owner of an LLC. The last thing you want to do is start creating confusion over whether you're operating as an LLC or a sole proprietorship. EIN for the LLC, that's all. The earnings are simply reported on your personal income tax.

There is what started it all.

What do you mean it's not necessary? If you get an EIN your automatically given two numbers. In your first post you said you need to keep business and personal expenses separate. The only way to do that is with an EIN. I never said I was a sole proprietor as I said my company was a LLC. Since it is a SMLLC the entity is still an LLC but I am taxed as a Sole Proprietor. This does not make my company a Sole Proprietorship. I am not creating any confusion. I specifically said it was an LLC but I was being taxed as a sole proprietor instead of a corporation. So with your second to last sentence. You get two numbers when you file for an EIN and that's what I said in the beginning.

[BusinessAdviser]

Not true. Re-read the quote from the IRS in Post #18 and let's move on.

[dmetcalf50]

What your trying to state now is irrelevant to what started this argument. Good job for going on www.irs.gov after I showed you the link though. I'm glad I was able to help you learn something.

I don't have a problem saying I'm wrong, but in this situation I'm trying to help the guy and your telling me what I have done is wrong.

No wonder why you have 5002 posts, you don't know when you shut the fuck up.

[dmetcalf50]

But thanks for clearing that up after 17 posts back and forth. I'm done with this thread now.

[BusinessAdviser]

What your trying to state now is irrelevant to what started this argument. Good job for going on Internal Revenue Service after I showed you the link though. I'm glad I was able to help you learn something.

I don't have a problem saying I'm wrong, but in this situation I'm trying to help the guy and your telling me what I have done is wrong.

No wonder why you have 5002 posts, you don't know when you shut the fuck up.

Just trying to get the correct information to the original poster. Glad I could help.

[netl40]

Original poster here:

Thank you for the help in clarifying the situation.

Let me also more fully explain the assumptions I had in mind when posting my original questions:

1) This will be a Single Member LLC.

2) I will not have any regular employees now, but may after a few years.

3) I may need to hire temporary "per-job" help, again, not now but maybe in 1 year.

4) I need to open a bank account in the LLC's name.

5) Since I've never filed for tax (even personal) before, I want to keep the paper work as simple as possible.

In light of points 1- 4 above, it sounds like I need an EIN.

Point 5, however, causes me to ask if getting an EIN will make for more paperwork at tax-time. (assuming that I haven't hired anyone yet...)

[brandon88]

Great forum for info. I came across this post while searching on Google. I have a question regarding EIN's and LLC's. I occasionally purchase tax deeds from the county auctions and while they require you to purchase them in your personal name, I plan on quit claiming them to an LLC I am forming. My question is this - do I need a EIN to open a bank account for this new LLC? I had another LLC in the past and opened an account using my SSN, however I have read a few posts on this forum and a few others that say you should keep your SSN seperate from the new LLC. If this is the case and I sign up for the EIN, will I still be able to pass through any profits and losses on my personal tax return since it will be a single member LLC?

Also, if everyone advises to get an EIN - I have a question about the form: when looking at form SS-4, question 9A, type of entity - what should be chosen on this for SMLLC's?

Thanks so much for the info.

[peteyflow]

yay go business adviser!

[mnbees]

Yikes! Someone needs to learn the various spellings and uses of your and you're. Profanity laced tantrums also lack professionalism. Hopefully this is received in the nature intended.
Nice job to the advisor for staying professional but he also got a little caught up in the "I'm right" paradigm.