[rogercbryan]

A- WRONG: I've secured
1- $6500 in start up capital in 2006
2- $100,000 credit line in 2007
3- $1.5M credit line which will go active this month
*All from investors

B- WRONG: My primary investors are invested in 13 different companies (1 being mine). They are very well capitalized and have an excellent track record when making decisions as to what companies to invest in. A controlling or equal state in ownership is a requirement in all their investments.

I've also begun investing my money into other companies. I consider my ownership in each of them as an investment in their hard assets and less in their potential sales. With out that ownership then I would have no real assets to speak of.

If you invest solely based on the possible potential for a given rate of return then you are are somewhat... I don't know what to call it. It's not the way I was taught, It's not the way I've ever seen people do it, its not the way a good business plan is even written (seeking investments). I'm just at a loss for words that you are actually trying to defend your point of view.

The only thing I can think of is that you are confusing investments with loan writing. If you are structuring deals so that you are guaranteed a rate of return while not taking any ownership then you are writing loans... not making investments in those particular companies.

I welcome a further discussion but please back up what you are saying either with documented processes or personal experience. I've given some insight into where my opinion comes from... your turn...

[StealYourDreams]

Originally Posted by rogercbryan

A- WRONG: I've secured
1- $6500 in start up capital in 2006
2- $100,000 credit line in 2007
3- $1.5M credit line which will go active this month
*All from investors

B- WRONG: My primary investors are invested in 13 different companies (1 being mine). They are very well capitalized and have an excellent track record when making decisions as to what companies to invest in. A controlling or equal state in ownership is a requirement in all their investments.

Yeah I dont know how people do things for $6500 I've never recieved an investment for less than $25,000. I'm talking straight equity investments. If the people you know require a majority stake for such small amounts you either deal in small projects with limited upside potential, have no track record, or need to find better investors.

I've also begun investing my money into other companies. I consider my ownership in each of them as an investment in their hard assets and less in their potential sales. With out that ownership then I would have no real assets to speak of.

I had to review some of your posts to get a better feel for the dollar amounts you're accustomed to. No offense, but I dont deal with miniscule amounts for one man web based companies. I dont work any project for less than $2.5m That aside, I highly doubt you're the type of investor I'd want to talk to. The people I deal with write $100,000 checks without much thought.

If you invest solely based on the possible potential for a given rate of return then you are are somewhat... I don't know what to call it. It's not the way I was taught, It's not the way I've ever seen people do it, its not the way a good business plan is even written (seeking investments). I'm just at a loss for words that you are actually trying to defend your point of view.

The way you know and the way things work in within the investment community are drastically different.

Here's a shocking revelation for you: readers dont buy and buyers dont read.

The only thing I can think of is that you are confusing investments with loan writing. If you are structuring deals so that you are guaranteed a rate of return while not taking any ownership then you are writing loans... not making investments in those particular companies.

No sir, I am not confused. I'm what you would call a finder and have been for the last 10 years.

I welcome a further discussion but please back up what you are saying either with documented processes or personal experience. I've given some insight into where my opinion comes from... your turn...

[rogercbryan]

Your last post sums up all of my opinions

First:

Yeah I don't know how people do things for $6500 I've never received an investment for less than $25,000. I'm talking straight equity investments. If the people you know require a majority stake for such small amounts you either deal in small projects with limited upside potential, have no track record, or need to find better investors.

Then:

I had to review some of your posts to get a better feel for the dollar amounts you're accustomed to. No offense, but I don't deal with minuscule amounts for one man web based companies. I don't work any project for less than $2.5m That aside, I highly doubt you're the type of investor I'd want to talk to. The people I deal with write $100,000 checks without much thought.

First you deal with $25K deals.. then only $2.5M deals.. then $100K deals.. .you don't even know your market. Thank you for reaffirming the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about. It will help me to sleep tonight.

No sir, I am not confused. I'm what you would call a finder and have been for the last 10 years.

A finder? Of what... bad advice? I don't know you so I'm not going to attack you personally.. but a finder? What the hell is a finder?

Here's a shocking revelation for you: readers don't buy and buyers don't read.

Does anyone else want to jump in here... what the hell does this mean?

This has been fun and all.. but the fact that I don't agree with nor can I fathom anything that you said has me perplexed. I often disagree with people and I'm always an A** but I rarely feel like someone is from a different world then I.

Back to the original poster. You have a decent amount of advice from this post. If you have any more questions please post them so we can get back to your topic. And please avoid listening to people who are investing in rocks with the aliens on mars. That sounded stupid but it summed up my point...

[StealYourDreams]

Originally Posted by rogercbryan

Your last post sums up all of my opinions

First:

Then:

First you deal with $25K deals.. then only $2.5M deals.. then $100K deals.. .you don't even know your market. Thank you for reaffirming the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about. It will help me to sleep tonight.

You must be slow so let me spell this out for you:

Project : $2,500,000
Minimum investment: $25,000
Minimum Liquidity: $100,000

You can continue to debate until you are blue in the face. I will tell you that regardless of what you believe I have sold investments in the pre-IPO arena for 10 years.

I qualify investors for a minimum investment of $100,000 which means drop closing them to the actual minimum of $25,000 is simple. Whatever amount they come in for they have to be comfortable with the fact that they can lose it all.

A finder? Of what... bad advice? I don't know you so I'm not going to attack you personally.. but a finder? What the hell is a finder?

A finder is a person that facilitates deals between investors and those seeking capital.

Does anyone else want to jump in here... what the hell does this mean?

This has been fun and all.. but the fact that I don't agree with nor can I fathom anything that you said has me perplexed. I often disagree with people and I'm always an A** but I rarely feel like someone is from a different world then I.

As I stated in an earlier post things are often different than peoples perceptions. Most people dont understand why people buy and continue to put the worng deal in front of the wrong person.

[rogercbryan]

Stealyourdreams- a great name by the way.. instills me with a great deal of confidence when considering using your for funding.

I guess a 'finder' is a 'broker' maybe its a language thing. You are not very clear in your posts and you actually were completely off base with your review of my posts. I've never borrowed money for a web based business.

You have yet to give any foundation to anything that you said. We are simply supposed to take your word for it. What is your company name and website? I'd like to do more research on you.

After reviewing your posts on this thread it became apparent you never really offered advice you only gave a bunch of opinions about greed and the carelessness of investors. I'm sure the customers that you are 'finding' for would be happy to read that.

If you have any advice for the original poster that you can support with real examples of how the advice applies to them, then by all means the floor is yours. If you don't then piss off... I've wasted enough time on this already.

[StealYourDreams]

Originally Posted by rogercbryan

Stealyourdreams- a great name by the way.. instills me with a great deal of confidence when considering using your for funding.

Im not looking to do business with you or anyone on this board. Someone asked a question on a topic I have a vast amount of experience in. It's simple - you can take it or leave it

I guess a 'finder' is a 'broker' maybe its a language thing. You are not very clear in your posts and you actually were completely off base with your review of my posts. I've never borrowed money for a web based business.

A finder does not have a series 7.

You have yet to give any foundation to anything that you said. We are simply supposed to take your word for it. What is your company name and website? I'd like to do more research on you.

I am not looking for business. Who I am and what I do makes no difference.

After reviewing your posts on this thread it became apparent you never really offered advice you only gave a bunch of opinions about greed and the carelessness of investors. I'm sure the customers that you are 'finding' for would be happy to read that.

They are not opinions they are facts whether you care to believe them or not. Perhaps you should open your mind a bit and realize that you do not have all of the answers and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

If you have any advice for the original poster that you can support with real examples of how the advice applies to them, then by all means the floor is yours. If you don't then piss off... I've wasted enough time on this already.

I take it when you run out of things to say you tell people to piss off? I can see you are a very mature professional. As such people on here should look to as the final word of how things work in an industry you have no experience in.

I gave the poster my advice, let me repeat it. In fact, let me put it in caps so you dont miss it:

THE INVESTORS YOU WANT, FOR YOUR PROJECT AND THE DOLLAR AMOUNT YOU ARE SEEKING, DONT CARE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE COMPANY THEY ARE GETTING. THEY DO NOT WANT AN ACTIVE INVESTMENT. THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY AND THEY WANT TO MAKE IT QUICK.

PUT A BUSINESS PLAN TOGETHER, DO SOME MARKETING RESEARCH TO BACK UP YOUR FIGURES AND START PITCHING EVERY RICH PERSON YOU KNOW TELLING THEM THEY CAN TURN 50K INTO 500K.

[capforge]

Originally Posted by kindafishy

I have not done any market research. When I conceived the idea, I spent probably 6 - 8 hours searching the internet for an example of the product I am envisioning. I did not find anything like my device out there, but I did note that there are millions of hits that come back when I started investigating the consumer need that this device satisfies. All the responses I checked were pretty much the same poor and technically challenging answer or otherwise described poor solutions to the consumer need. I figure that I have a great solution to the problem so I think the market is great by extension.

Right- that is not the kind of market research that justifies a $25K investment, in my opinion. It is the equivalent of searching for flying boats, and finding lots of hits on boats and lots on flying, but no technologically valid solutions for boats that fly. That is not the same as a demand for flying boats.

So- no problem. Here is what you do- write as detailed a spec as needed for your solution, preferably with some screenshots or other visuals to help people "get" what you want to do, and then take it to 4-5 people you imagine would be your ideal customers. Ask them what they think. If the answer is- can I buy it now? great. If the answer is anything less, work on improving it until either it gets the right reaction, or you decide it just isn't going to work.

Do not worry about them stealing your idea- they don't have $25K either, and they care less than you do about trying to build one of these. And do not build anything until you are sure there is a market, and you market tells you exactly how they want to see it. First sell. Then build. Period.

As far as the StealYourDreams post suggestion- I get now what he is talking about, and it may work for him, but I don't think most people are slick enough or comfortable enough to be able to pull off the same thing or know the same kinds of potential rich investors, so you are probably better off working to build real value in a real product and then letting the results speak for you.

[RLorenzen]

Originally Posted by StealYourDreams

Investors are blinded by greed. Feed that greed and start pitching every rich person you know. Tell them they will turn 50k into 500k in the next 24 months.

The run of the mill investor could care less what percentage they are getting just what they can make.

If anyone says any different thay dont know what they're talking about.

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but when I read your posts I could not believe how much of an idiot you are.