Canadian Securities course question

[Outta Hand]

Hello Guys and Gals of YE.com!

I am currently interested in feedback. I am possibily interested in studying Canadian Securities Exam and i wanted to ask...

Do you think it is better to go to job that requires you to get this certification or go out and get the certification first? I am interested in learning about and working in Finance sector so any feedback would be helpful. Talk soon

[jdoc]

The CSC course is typically seen as a given for most financial positions in any of the Big 5 banks, major credit unions and the like. Most are looking for additional designations such as the CFP (Certified Professional Planner), CFA (Certified Financial Analyst), etc. depending on the specific financial field.

Finance is a really big area, what specifically do you want to get into? Institutional portfolio management? Personal financial planning? Investment banking? Retail banking/loan officer? Stock Analyst? Other?

[Sarafina]

I'm registered in the CSC as we speak. I'm also one year away from completing the educational requirements needed for the CFP designation. A classmate of mine completed his CSC and had banks begging him to join as an investment advisor. They did ofcourse insist that he continue taking courses such as CPH and get further designations. My end goal is to be a CFP btw...what is yours?

I've talked to several people in the big five banks who've insisted I get the CSC before I go job hunting. I'm hoping to write it by October and be employed full-time this January. Taking it before job hunting just makes you that much more attractive. Its only $800 so you might as well.

If you don't...please have at minimum a degree in finance or business and prior finance industry experience.

[akula]

Hello Guys and Gals of YE.com!

I am currently interested in feedback. I am possibily interested in studying Canadian Securities Exam and i wanted to ask...

Do you think it is better to go to job that requires you to get this certification or go out and get the certification first? I am interested in learning about and working in Finance sector so any feedback would be helpful. Talk soon

Good stuff buddy!

I've done the certification as well, but I've found that it doesn't hold a candle to a business degree. I realise that it's quicker and cheaper than going to university - but really, if you want to get a good job in finance, you're best just to do a business degree. It will pay for it self a lot quicker and you will learn finance in a lot more detail than you'd learn from CSC.

Practically, it's like this;

The reason why certain positions in finance industry require certification from CSC is because of consumer protection laws. In other words - to be able to work with retail clients (i.e. mum and dad investors), you need the certification so the unsophisticated investors are theoretically protected from unscrupulous financial transactions.

But who wants to deal with retail clients about their home loans, retirement planning, tax returns and salary packaging???? Screw them - you're never gonna make serious money dealing with retail clients.

So, your option is to provide financial services to corporations and sophisticated investors. Consumer protection legislation does not apply to these wholesale clients.

In other words - do a business degree and go into investment banking. As a financial planner, take my word for it - don't worry about financial planning. A business degree with a finance major is a better investment than the Canadian Securities Exam.

[Sarafina]

He wasn't asking whether or not a business degree was better than a professional certification course. Even Ray Charles could see the obvious. There's no comparing a degree to that kind of certification really.

His question was very direct. CSC before or after getting a job. You didn't answer the question.

For the record, several people who have CSC actually hold degrees in finance and business. You can effectively do both.

Also, out of nothing more than curiousity. Why the heck did you do the CSC if you're in Australia?

[jdoc]

I've done the certification as well.

You did? That's wild, how come?!

But who wants to deal with retail clients about their home loans, retirement planning, tax returns and salary packaging???? Screw them - you're never gonna make serious money dealing with retail clients.

Agreed, although as Sarafina said this is off topic. Nonetheless, if you are trying to pursue a highly lucrative line of work in finance there are really three options:

1) Investment banking. Say good bye to anything but your job the first two years. When you come out of the office at the end of it and decide to continue, you're sitting pretty.

2) Full service broker. Still used by many high net worth individuals who don't want the hassle of trying to manage their own investments. The first few years here aren't nearly as bad as i-banking. Here you really need to find someone to mentor you. Get in their good books and you will be groomed to take over their book when they retire.

3) Institutional portfolio manager or mutual fund manager. Less options on where you can work (heavily clustered in Toronto in Canada, with some smaller ones in all the major cities), but if you become a manager after being an analyst for a few years and work towards getting $1B+ funds then you will be doing great (gotta love Canada's higher MERs).

[akula]

He wasn't asking whether or not a business degree was better than a professional certification course. Even Ray Charles could see the obvious. There's no comparing a degree to that kind of certification really.

His question was very direct. CSC before or after getting a job. You didn't answer the question.

For the record, several people who have CSC actually hold degrees in finance and business. You can effectively do both.

Also, out of nothing more than curiousity. Why the heck did you do the CSC if you're in Australia?

oh, no, i've got the Australian equivalent of csc - its called ps146 compliance

umm...that's a moot point

most of the guys i know got an entry level job of some sort, and then their management pushed them into doing the course so they can move up in the organisation

i did the opposite and got the qualification before i got the job - but i did this for two reasons; personal interest/life skills (i wanted to see how personal finance works) and for risk management in case i got fired or something from m&a work

so far, i haven't needed to fall back on this qualification, but i probably will in the future

to be frank - i'm not seeing why bright, ambitious people would ever bother working with retail clients.

[Sarafina]

oh, no, i've got the Australian equivalent of csc - its called ps146 compliance

umm...that's a moot point

most of the guys i know got an entry level job of some sort, and then their management pushed them into doing the course so they can move up in the organisation

i did the opposite and got the qualification before i got the job - but i did this for two reasons; personal interest/life skills (i wanted to see how personal finance works) and for risk management in case i got fired or something from m&a work

so far, i haven't needed to fall back on this qualification, but i probably will in the future

to be frank - i'm not seeing why bright, ambitious people would ever bother working with retail clients.

They don't. Which is what's wrong with professions that cater to retail clients for the most part. The people who work those jobs usually aren't genuinely interested in retail clients but lack the credentials, experience or internal motivation to go higher up in the totem pole so they settle where they are.

Not everybody is like this though. I consider myself to be bright and ambitious. My interest in the finance industry is heavily reliant on my dealing with retail clients though. You can argue its not as lucrative as investment banking. Its also not as lucrative as pharmacy or medicine for that matter. The only advantage wholesale clients have over retail clients (that you've highlighted) is money. Money, as trite as it sounds, is only a piece of the pie. There are enough people who've made lucrative careers dealing with retail clients for one to conclude its not impossible.

You said you're a financial planner. Why did you choose that over investment banking?

[Outta Hand]

I'm registered in the CSC as we speak. I'm also one year away from completing the educational requirements needed for the CFP designation. A classmate of mine completed his CSC and had banks begging him to join as an investment advisor. They did ofcourse insist that he continue taking courses such as CPH and get further designations. My end goal is to be a CFP btw...what is yours?

I've talked to several people in the big five banks who've insisted I get the CSC before I go job hunting. I'm hoping to write it by October and be employed full-time this January. Taking it before job hunting just makes you that much more attractive. Its only $800 so you might as well.

If you don't...please have at minimum a degree in finance or business and prior finance industry experience.

Thanks for the insight Sarafina... where/how are you doing the CSC? I've had a look at the course done through Sheridan College and also the self study course as well. My past background is in Computer Science but i could see myself going back to school and picking up a degree over the next few years. My end goal past working for banks would be to become a private investor over time. Do you think this is a good path? Just really trying to get feedback from others who are in a similar boat... even if they aren't going in the same direction Outside of this i've also been preparing to write my project management exam by fall currently.

I am pretty busy guy these days but i want something i can begin to apply down the road (long-term) to my end goal (see above). Anyone want to weigh in with their 2 cents!

[Outta Hand]

hey Akula,

Thanks for the Kudos and thoughts about this. As stated in the other message i am looking to go back and work on the business background (degree and all that good stuff)... i currently run a business and outside of that i am always busy... Computer background and all that jazz.

Also an outside question is would most banks invest the money in an employee who wants to go back and better himself with a business degree while working for them? I'd like to think "Yes" but i'd like an informed option as well.

What you said about certifications is a good point... thanks for that bit of information Akula. I thank you for all your input Akula! I always welcome the non-BS advice and i am glad you responded

Good stuff buddy!

I've done the certification as well, but I've found that it doesn't hold a candle to a business degree. I realise that it's quicker and cheaper than going to university - but really, if you want to get a good job in finance, you're best just to do a business degree. It will pay for it self a lot quicker and you will learn finance in a lot more detail than you'd learn from CSC.

Practically, it's like this;

The reason why certain positions in finance industry require certification from CSC is because of consumer protection laws. In other words - to be able to work with retail clients (i.e. mum and dad investors), you need the certification so the unsophisticated investors are theoretically protected from unscrupulous financial transactions.

But who wants to deal with retail clients about their home loans, retirement planning, tax returns and salary packaging???? Screw them - you're never gonna make serious money dealing with retail clients.

So, your option is to provide financial services to corporations and sophisticated investors. Consumer protection legislation does not apply to these wholesale clients.

In other words - do a business degree and go into investment banking. As a financial planner, take my word for it - don't worry about financial planning. A business degree with a finance major is a better investment than the Canadian Securities Exam.

[Outta Hand]

Hello jdoc, just responding to what you said....

1) Investment banking. Say good bye to anything but your job the first two years. When you come out of the office at the end of it and decide to continue, you're sitting pretty.

With what i am pursuing now, trust me this would be a departure from the future i would have. I work for EMC, and if i want to move up there its, "kiss your life goodbye" until you decide to leave us... also the whole tech support game is just killing me. I am no stranger to hard work...

Outside of this i am also working possibily as early as fall to develop a internal trading application that is going to be used by a brokage... working on a deal to get a cut of all profits made by the use of the system. So again the CSC is interesting from an SME (subject matter expert) standpoint.

[jdoc]

Hello jdoc, just responding to what you said....

With what i am pursuing now, trust me this would be a departure from the future i would have. I work for EMC, and if i want to move up there its, "kiss your life goodbye" until you decide to leave us... also the whole tech support game is just killing me. I am no stranger to hard work...

Outside of this i am also working possibily as early as fall to develop a internal trading application that is going to be used by a brokage... working on a deal to get a cut of all profits made by the use of the system. So again the CSC is interesting from an SME (subject matter expert) standpoint.

Hi Luc,

The nice thing in investment banking is once you're past the first rung you're down to 45-55 hours/week on average and have a nice 200K+ salary with major bonuses on top of that.

I hope things work out for you. Figure out which type of finance job you want and talk to people in those jobs (Toronto is full of them). If you want to get in, listen to what they tell you the best option is. It might not be going back to school.

[Outta Hand]

Hi Luc,

The nice thing in investment banking is once you're past the first rung you're down to 45-55 hours/week on average and have a nice 200K+ salary with major bonuses on top of that.

I hope things work out for you. Figure out which type of finance job you want and talk to people in those jobs (Toronto is full of them). If you want to get in, listen to what they tell you the best option is. It might not be going back to school.

As it is right now i am working about 60 to 70 hours a week so 45 to 55 would be a break

Yeah i've got to think that a lot comes down to experience in roles such as that and where does that start? On the job usually... if anyone has a different point-of-view i am all ears.

[Outta Hand]

I'm registered in the CSC as we speak. I'm also one year away from completing the educational requirements needed for the CFP designation. A classmate of mine completed his CSC and had banks begging him to join as an investment advisor. They did ofcourse insist that he continue taking courses such as CPH and get further designations. My end goal is to be a CFP btw...what is yours?

I've talked to several people in the big five banks who've insisted I get the CSC before I go job hunting. I'm hoping to write it by October and be employed full-time this January. Taking it before job hunting just makes you that much more attractive. Its only $800 so you might as well.

If you don't...please have at minimum a degree in finance or business and prior finance industry experience.

Hey Sarafina... would you mind chatting with me about this sometime? Let me know. Talk soon

[Sarafina]

Outtahand,
I tried to send you a pm but your box is full. Clear it and pm me so I can give you my contact details and what not.