A "Why Not?" Threas:Solar bikes

**ygolo** · 05-08-2008 07:41 PM

Why haven’t mainstream commercial solar bikes become readily available?

Solar Cars have been around a while.

A commercial version is out but very expensive.

Solar/Electric Bikes are incredibly cheap, but not mainstream due to low-speeds.

Consider all the young students/graduates in India and China who just needs something a little better than a normal bicycle to get to their IT/Manufacturing jobs?

For that matter, consider the rising gas prices in the U.S. too, and the fact that most people really just need something for daily commute and close-to-home errands.

Why hasn’t an affordable mainstream solar-bike (combining current solar-bike technology with solar car technology) be developed and marketed? (or has it?)

Is there a distribution or mass manufacturing problem? Is there really no market for such things? Somehow it seems too obvious for no-one to have tried to take this to market.

**Mega B** · 05-08-2008 08:36 PM

I would have thought the main reason for the bikes not being built as you are into electronics is the solar panel size to charge to batteries,if you look at the experimental cars about they have panels totally cover the car just to get the thing to move so on a bike in theory it sounds possible but in practice no way.

**ygolo** · 05-08-2008 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mega B

I would have thought the main reason for the bikes not being built as you are into electronics is the solar panel size to charge to batteries,if you look at the experimental cars about they have panels totally cover the car just to get the thing to move so on a bike in theory it sounds possible but in practice no way.

This copmany sells something

It also seems like you can make bikes with exoskeletons a lot like the high school kids in this competition do.

Like most of these things, it is not a matter of technical feasibility.

**Mega B** · 05-08-2008 08:49 PM

Blimey just a 90-day warrantee i would pass on buying something like that just for that comment.Wish you well in your quest.

**ygolo** · 05-08-2008 08:57 PM

Ah, maintenence. I didn't consider that.

Yes. I can see solar vehicles in general being higher maintanance, and offering a lifetime warranty can be difficult.

Wonder what it would take to make cheaply maintainable solar vehicles in general.

**warrensway** · 05-09-2008 02:53 AM

Yes maintenance and cost.

**jasaunders** · 05-09-2008 08:05 AM

Sounds good to me. You could always build a prototype of this for under $2000 and see how well it works.

**GuyBBY** · 05-09-2008 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by jasaunders

Sounds good to me. You could always build a prototype of this for under $2000 and see how well it works.

I agree. I am a commuter by train in and out of Boston everyday, and see people on their vespas/regular bikes/and even Segways now, that they use to get from their home to the train, from the train to their office (they do not bring Vespas on the train, but the latter they do).

Most employers give large discounts on monthly commuter passes, so even if these people live a good distance from their station, they drive or ride there and then get into town and walk or make the rest of the commute.

If you could get these things designed and manufactured at a cost that rivaled the Segway, it may be something worth looking into. Or you could even go the ZipCar route in that people can get them at a per use rate in and around the city. If someone has these options:

A. Drive into town to work (Traffic, Gas, Wear/Tear on Car, Parking $$)
B. Drive/Bike to train station, take train (bring bike on if applies), get off and walk/ride their bike to work.
C. Take train to city, have a monthly pass to use solar bike, or some cheap payment system that rivals parking, commuting costs via train, etc.

C may be the most appealing.

Again this was off the top of my head so it may be the case that the maintenance and cost would exceed the potential net profit but you will know that if you decide it a valuable mock up to look into.

Guy

**tazman9r** · 05-09-2008 09:02 AM

A solar bike? Maybe if you wanted to do a hybrid type thing with a moped, but a solar bike?

Sure, there are people who would buy them. There are people who insist on never using their dryer. Both would be doing it as a symbolic political gesture to "save the planet".

Oh, yes, the young students in India and China, they are moving into the cities and buying scooters and such. The demand for oil for those to countries is going through the roof as they improve their world status.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the answer is not a technology that requires a sacrifice from the buyer, it's a different substance to burn in current technology engines. Whether that be hydrogen or bat guano, but something that competes with oil.

**jasaunders** · 05-09-2008 09:23 AM

Why do you think this technology would require a sacrafice from the buyer? It is a motorized bike powered from the sun. In fact, it's a benefit to bike riders who already do all the work pedaling themselves and would like some assistance.

**tazman9r** · 05-09-2008 03:40 PM

Show me a solar powered bike that has similar capabilities and speed at a scooter or moped, and I'll agree that you have a viable product. But solar powered cars that I know of don't go very fast and can't carry an average size person. They also have very little power. The sacrifice on the part of a buyer becomes being willing to spend the money for a product they can't use to do anything but carry themselves and maybe a backpack.

**ygolo** · 05-14-2008 12:08 PM

What I find interesting is that there are already people selling these things. But they have not become the latest fad at all.

Initially, I was thinking at aiming at the "moped" market. It really seems ideal for the emerging market of young professional in big cities. Many probably already bike (with their feet), but are limited in how far they can go.

I am personally thinking of buying one myself, and or modifying my bicycle.

This got me thinking, are setting kits to do this a better option? It is a different niche (much smaller potentially).

I personally don't like the 90 day warranty either. Right now, I am obsessed with thinking of a way to reduce maintenance.

I am also wondering if there is a "granola" stigma associated with the idea too.

**tazman9r** · 05-15-2008 03:07 PM

That's part of my point. There will also be a market, however niche, that will purchase from you and use it as a political gesture about how they are saving the planet. It's the "Look at me, I ride a solar powered moped, I care more about the environment than you".

Now, if you can get a scooter version to perform similarly to other gas powered scooters, now your talking. Even if it's a scooter with pedals, and those pedals power an electric generator that powers the bike, I dunno, but something that a young up and coming professional could ride carrying what was necessary for their job, and be stylish as well. Whatever it turns out being, it is gonna have to satisfy the mainstream general public, and it will do that first with looks balanced with performance/utility. The fact that it is solar powered and therefore has no emissions needs to be the deal closer extra benefit, not the main point.

**ygolo** · 05-15-2008 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by tazman9r

That's part of my point. There will also be a market, however niche, that will purchase from you and use it as a political gesture about how they are saving the planet. It's the "Look at me, I ride a solar powered moped, I care more about the environment than you".

Well, I think that market is already catered to quite well.

Originally Posted by tazman9r

Now, if you can get a scooter version to perform similarly to other gas powered scooters, now your talking.

You can always up the hp of gas-powered motors; they have bikes that hit 200 MPH.

Current electric (not solar) motorcycles range in the 45 MPH (top speeds of 60 MPH). There is also the KillaCycle that can hold its own with many gas powered motorcycles.

Are you saying that they need to get to 200 MPH? I barely even pass 90 MPH in a car without feeling really anxious.

What speed target would you think is a "main-stream" speed target?

Originally Posted by tazman9r

Even if it's a scooter with pedals, and those pedals power an electric generator that powers the bike, I dunno, but something that a young up and coming professional could ride carrying what was necessary for their job, and be stylish as well. Whatever it turns out being, it is gonna have to satisfy the mainstream general public, and it will do that first with looks balanced with performance/utility. The fact that it is solar powered and therefore has no emissions needs to be the deal closer extra benefit, not the main point.

Frankly, I am not so worried about the technology. If we can target cost, and target spec. a viable "main-stream" product, there will be a way to make the technology work (it is just at the point where not everyone can do it, and there will be a good deal of expertise needed, but its definitely within the realm of possibility)

To me, this is a marketing thought experiment. What other things would people look-at to make it "main-stream?"

Initial Sale Price? ---How much?
You can get Mopeds for under $1000. Electric motorcycles (which run slightly faster on average) cost between $2000 and $12000. The battery warranty seems like the biggest price adder.

The Etek-RT is slated to be $8000. It has a top speed of 70 MPH.

I think, the price is about twice of what main-stream riders would want. But I am not a motorcycle rider. I was just pricing competition.

So again, what would main-stream bike riders (U.S. for now) go for?

Maintenence/Tire costs: I suspect most people are not directly aware of these costs. I estimate about $0.05/mile for mid-size car. People become aware of the costs, when they need to go in for service. So there are probably some marketing tricks to help make them feel happier about this.

I have no clue what the "main-stream" expectations are.

Fuel Costs:This is where there is a big win for solar. The only cost will be if it needs to be directly recharged often like the electric cars/bikes.

"Green": I am wondering here, if the very fact that it is a 0-emission, and low-energy consumption is a turn-off for mainstream riders.