Yes We Can

[usakos]

As you can see, this thread will go on and on; and no argument is reasonably factual or at least acceptably correct unless my main man, jmenq2 says it is. So, if so, then what's the point of adding anything more? Econ major in college, huh...?

[BusinessAdviser]

As you can see, this thread will go on and on; and no argument is reasonably factual or at least acceptably correct unless my main man, jmenq2 says it is. So, if so, then what's the point of adding anything more? Econ major in college, huh...?

I'm simply debating the issue with you. It seems as though you're taking this a little personal. It's unfortunate you can not argue an issue, supporting it with fact and reason, without reverting to attacking the other person rather than the issue. Man up and address the issue.

I was asking for a little support for your analysis, to understand from where your knowledge of the functioning of the economy stems. College degree with an Econ major? A couple Econ classes as part of a Business major? Just curious where you're coming from.

Also, I'm still waiting for support for your statement of fact that Brits prefer the income tax to consumption tax. I'm just interested to read about something that I was not previously aware. Knowledge is power, you know?

Either way, you seem to be just falling into the same defensive, cowardly posture into which too many members here fall. When you are debating an issue or proposing your point of view, stand up for yourself. Support your position with documentation or with well-reasoned analysis, or abstain from remaining in such debate. However, do NOT revert to cowardly attacking another person, for whatever reason, be it a different point of view or your perceived defeat in the argument. Man up.

[mattSantill]

Well first we need to change our tax values.... the tax values that disproportionately benefits the wealthiest Americans.
The Bush tax cuts gave the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans a tax cut that was twice as large as the middle class. We are taxing income from work at twice the level that we're taxing gains for investors.
We need a fair system when it comes to Taxes.

We need to go after the companies that hide their income overseas and cost Americans billions of dollars every year.

We need to cut taxes for working people, cut taxes for homeowners, and cut taxes for seniors. Baraq has plans to do just that.

We need fairness for the American middle class.... eliminate corporate loopholes and tax breaks.... insist that everyone pay there fair share.

[usakos]

I'm simply debating the issue with you. It seems as though you're taking this a little personal. It's unfortunate you can not argue an issue, supporting it with fact and reason, without reverting to attacking the other person rather than the issue. Man up and address the issue.

I was asking for a little support for your analysis, to understand from where your knowledge of the functioning of the economy stems. College degree with an Econ major? A couple Econ classes as part of a Business major? Just curious where you're coming from.

Also, I'm still waiting for support for your statement of fact that Brits prefer the income tax to consumption tax. I'm just interested to read about something that I was not previously aware. Knowledge is power, you know?

Either way, you seem to be just falling into the same defensive, cowardly posture into which too many members here fall. When you are debating an issue or proposing your point of view, stand up for yourself. Support your position with documentation or with well-reasoned analysis, or abstain from remaining in such debate. However, do NOT revert to cowardly attacking another person, for whatever reason, be it a different point of view or your perceived defeat in the argument. Man up.

Jmenq2,

We've been here a few times now. You've questioned my education major and I have already told you. I know yours because you've already told this forum so many times now, your BA in economics, and now you are done with your MBA and Law. So that's cool and I applaud you for your achievement. I have already informed you that I did my BS in economics with concentration in econometrics. I didn't just take a few econ classes and I am not majoring in business, etc. Like you, I have completed 191 university credit hours and the required 80 credit hours of upper classes for my BS Economics major at the finest Ohio State University under some of the finest faculty in the nation, and I too am pursuing my MBA, but at Harvard Business School, the finest business school in the nation. Like you, I could have done a joint MBA/Law, I got high scores in both GMAT and LSAT, but i chose to just do my MBA, this is my personal preferences. And you once questioned where i do my research, I am an intern at UBS Wealth Management.

Now, my support for the Brits prefer our Tax system?

I have lived and worked in many different countries, esp. in the UK, when I was working for a major TV network. I worked in the newsroom as an engineer and we have conducted many TV interviews with many notable individuals. And just so you know, the reason why so have more Brits entertainers living in the US, some of their reasons is because of the tax system in the UK. Some of these entertainers are some of the highest paid individuals, and the more they earn, the more they spend and the more they get taxed.

I am too tired tired to go on and on, I am going to sleep.

Education is good, but it is not always the argument, but sometimes it's also about real life experience.

[BusinessAdviser]

Well first we need to change our tax values.... the tax values that disproportionately benefits the wealthiest Americans.

See, I was under the impression that a progressive tax (like our current income tax) taxes higher levels of income at a higher rate than lower levels of income. News to me.

The Bush tax cuts gave the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans a tax cut that was twice as large as the middle class.

Do you understand the result of a reduction in income tax? It's not to make the wealthy wealthier. It's to increase consumption. What is the result of increased consumption? Job creation. More people in lower tax brackets earning an income. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Also, the wealthiest were given a larger tax break because they had more to spend. Your comment is a bit misleading, since it seems to indicate that the wealthiest are being taxed less than the middle class, which is not true.

We are taxing income from work at twice the level that we're taxing gains for investors.

And why the hell not?! Where do you think the money invested came from? Someone earned it. And it was taxed the first time around too. Thus, taxing gains on investments amounts to double taxation in a sense. Moreover, investments benefit the economy, as they provide more capital to corporations for spending and growth, resulting in more jobs, and more income for those in lower tax brackets.

We need a fair system when it comes to Taxes.

Fair? What do you propose? Let me guess. Tax the hell out of the "haves," since the majority of us are the "have nots." Punish those who worked hard to earn money. Is that what you mean by fair?

We need to go after the companies that hide their income overseas and cost Americans billions of dollars every year.

If it was possible, it would have been done already. Why not adopt a consumption tax which will create billions of dollars in tax revenue as a result of spending the money earned in illegal acts? THIS can be done, but is not possible with the current income tax scheme.

We need to cut taxes for working people, cut taxes for homeowners, and cut taxes for seniors. Baraq has plans to do just that.

As you mentioned, Baraq wants to cut taxes for everyone and their mom, right? And you already described all the increased spending that Baraq has planned. You do understand that, theoretically, the money the government has to spend comes from the money that it raises from taxation, right? Baraq's numbers don't seem to be adding up, regardless of how bad you want them to for him.

We need fairness for the American middle class.... eliminate corporate loopholes and tax breaks.... insist that everyone pay there fair share.

It all comes down to your definition of "fair." It seems to me that your definition of fair involves those with money giving it to those without money. I'm not arguing one way or the other, but I must ask from whom's point of view that is fair? From the point of view of those who have worked hard their entire lives? Or from the point of view of those who have done nothing their entire lives but hold an open palm?

[BusinessAdviser]

Jmenq2,

We've been here a few times now. You've questioned my education major and I have already told you. I know yours because you've already told this forum so many times now, your BA in economics, and now you are done with your MBA and Law. So that's cool and I applaud you for your achievement. I have already informed you that I did my BS in economics with concentration in econometrics. I didn't just take a few econ classes and I am not majoring in business, etc. Like you, I have completed 191 university credit hours and the required 80 credit hours of upper classes for my BS Economics major at the finest Ohio State University under some of the finest faculty in the nation, and I too am pursuing my MBA, but at Harvard Business School, the finest business school in the nation. Like you, I could have done a joint MBA/Law, I got high scores in both GMAT and LSAT, but i chose to just do my MBA, this is my personal preferences. And you once questioned where i do my research, I am an intern at UBS Wealth Management.

Now, my support for the Brits prefer our Tax system?

I have lived and worked in many different countries, esp. in the UK, when I was working for a major TV network. I worked in the newsroom as an engineer and we have conducted many TV interviews with many notable individuals. And just so you know, the reason why so have more Brits entertainers living in the US, some of their reasons is because of the tax system in the UK. Some of these entertainers are some of the highest paid individuals, and the more they earn, the more they spend and the more they get taxed.

I am too tired tired to go on and on, I am going to sleep.

Education is good, but it is not always the argument, but sometimes it's also about real life experience.

Congratulations. That's all very impressive. Still, it doesn't at all address the issue of whether a consumption tax would be better for the United States than the current income tax scheme. Or the issue of why you attack people rather than issues. Good night.

[BusinessAdviser]

Well first we need to change our tax values.... the tax values that disproportionately benefits the wealthiest Americans.
The Bush tax cuts gave the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans a tax cut that was twice as large as the middle class. We are taxing income from work at twice the level that we're taxing gains for investors.
We need a fair system when it comes to Taxes.

We need to go after the companies that hide their income overseas and cost Americans billions of dollars every year.

We need to cut taxes for working people, cut taxes for homeowners, and cut taxes for seniors. Baraq has plans to do just that.

We need fairness for the American middle class.... eliminate corporate loopholes and tax breaks.... insist that everyone pay there fair share.

Still waiting to hear your thoughts on how an increase in the minimum wage affects the economy and those working in it.

[mattSantill]

First question: How do you feel about taxes? The tradeoff for increased governmental spending on such things as healthcare and inner city schools is increased taxes.

Second question: What do you think is the result of raising the minimum wage? This is the biggest problem with politics/the economy. Voters don't understand the ramifications of what they're voting for. And you're an MBA student! Tsk, tsk. I'll let you comment before explaining the economics of an increase in the minimum wage to you.

I know your argument will be that raising minimum wage will increase inflation.

and that is a common argument... but purely theoretical

Inflation is caused by so many economic factors that blaming one element appears to be very short sighted.

[BusinessAdviser]

I know your argument will be that raising minimum wage will increase inflation.

and that is a common argument... but purely theoretical

Inflation is caused by so many economic factors that blaming one element appears to be very short sighted.

Actually you don't. That's not my argument at all. Try again?

[mattSantill]

Ha... well go ahead... shoot

[BusinessAdviser]

Here's just a quick article:

The Case Against a Higher Minimum Wage

Economically, minimum wages are bad. It's just unfortunate that we as Americans don't make it a point to be educated as to the issues on which we vote.

[mattSantill]

Well... should I send articles that argue otherwise? this is highly debated by economists...

[BusinessAdviser]

You can if you want. I've seen them. I disagree with any arguments that a raise in the minimum wage level (as well as the existence any minimum wage at all) is not detrimental to the economy and those within it, let alone that it is beneficial. While there is evidence that a minimum wage is detrimental to an economy and those within it, there is no evidence to support the argument that a minimum wage is beneficial, only some arguing that it is not detrimental.

What do you think? Is your argument in favor of a minimum wage hike based on your desire for your relative's employer to be forced to pay your relative a hire wage (despite the risk that the actual result could be your relative's termination), or is it based on sound economic theory and evidence?

[ladyk5]

Hi there have been gone for a while, but now that I am back (not that anyone cares) I want to chime in on this cause it is very important to me. Initially I was for Edwards now I am for Obama, but before choosing him I educated myself greatly on what he represented. So I have another question for everyone: Did you watch the CA debates, do you know where each of the candidates stand? Some are stating that Baracks plan does not add up but I would argue against it he has a plan and perhaps if you listen to his statements during the debate or go to his site it would be clearer.

As far as the comment about higher taxation for the rich, even the two richest men in America agree that they are not being taxed enough, the wealthy (business owners especially) know how to hide income to the extent that they would not be taxed as heavily and in fact show a loss. (I thought this was common knowledge).

The economic situation in America is absolutely horrible especially for the middle and lower class while the rich continue to get richer. At this point it comes down to morals raising minimum wage is not going to hurt the economy or cause inflation no more than allowing business owner to write off trips to Hawaii as business expenses has. Currently someone on minimum wage makes less than $12K a year GROSS income if they work full time. Ask yourself this, could you really live on that, multiply it by 2 even 3 and it still sucks with average rent being 600+ a month, car notes (300+), utilities, phone and gas it is absolutely ridiculous to think that someone earning that amount of money can sustain a living with that income alone.

Sorry but I feel very strongly about this, my mother, bless her soul, works a minimum of 40 hours per week, and only makes about 26K a year, and she can barely make ends meet to the point that I tap into my own income to help her out. I am ready for this CHANGE Obama speaks of and I think he understands and can bring it

[ladyk5]

jmeng although normally we are on the same page I would have to disagree with you on this---but I have some questions for you, do you think that the annual pay increases that congress gives themselves each year is beneficial?
Also since you consider minimum wage a detriment, what would you suggest for those millions and millions of people who barely makes ends meet at $12K a year? Lets say you were one of these 'minimum wagees' how exactly would you make ends meet considering your household expenses etc?

You can if you want. I've seen them. I disagree with any arguments that a raise in the minimum wage level (as well as the existence any minimum wage at all) is not detrimental to the economy and those within it, let alone that it is beneficial. While there is evidence that a minimum wage is detrimental to an economy and those within it, there is no evidence to support the argument that a minimum wage is beneficial, only some arguing that it is not detrimental.

What do you think? Is your argument in favor of a minimum wage hike based on your desire for your relative's employer to be forced to pay your relative a hire wage (despite the risk that the actual result could be your relative's termination), or is it based on sound economic theory and evidence?