Is the IRS doing illegal acts???

[hockey97]

Ok just want to hear what you guys think of this. I been hearing this for a while.

The IRS has been taxing people on their income/wages but what I heard this is no law that requires wage workers meaning people that are working for a company to pay a income tax on their salary.

the people that say this explains that income tax is tax only on any profit or gain.

Wages are what you get in exchange for a number of hours of work. This means that wages are more like a trade type deal.

The income tax is only their if you made a profit off something, which could be a computer if you paid 800 bucks for a pc and sold it at 900 bucks the income tax would be based on that 100 bucks profit. This was what I was explained by a guy that is a cpa and saw these claims and done his own research.

here is a youtube video of a former IRS agent:

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jqLximBZI
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1r1h...eature=related

another former IRS agent:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKePl...eature=related

some more stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PvaN...eature=related

[jasaunders]

You are confusing capital gains tax and income tax... Capital gains being "profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a lower price."

Sure there are some people who think the government doesn't have the right to tax income. One of them is Wesley Snipes who was sentenced to 3 years trying to prove his case. You won't win this battle against the IRS.

[Mega B]

There are 2 things in life that are certain one is dying and the other is income tax

[hockey97]

jasaunders : I wasn't confused but the person that told me must have been confused. Your right about the capital gains.

I just post this on here to see what you guys here say about this since this board forum has many business men and women.

I am by the way working towards to become a cpa, just started 2nd year of college.
So I have some interest in this.

The youtube videos links I gave are videos of former IRS agents.

[flnazrael]

Legal or not, the sad fact is that the IRS isn't even needed, if people could change their philosophy of government. A country is a lot better if the people keep more of their money and give less to an incompetent, wasteful, and generally stupid government that largely wastes it.

I like the flat tax plan, though I think Huckabee's 23% is ridiculously high. I REALLY like Ron Paul's idea to get rid of the IRS and stop all this BS foreign and domestic spending that is the "need" behind the revenue it brings.


With that said - I am one of the people who believes that the income tax IS illegal, and though I do pay taxes, rest assured that I have used every single loophole and legal practice available to minimize my liability. I'm repulsed by what the govt does with my money, so I don't want to give them .01 more than I can.

There is no Constitutional basis for a lot of things the govt does - like the "war on drugs", welfare, or, say, the entirety of the Bush Administration. But they do it anyway.

[mattnelson]

heres some food for thought
IRS loses challenge to prove tax liability

[flnazrael]

If ever such an argument were to be presented widely, Cryer said, the income to the federal government would plummet. But not to worry, he said, the expenses could be reduced equally by eliminating programs, departments and agencies that also have no foundation in the Constitution.

For example, he said, the Constitution does not empower the federal government to regulate education, or employment, and agriculture, yet it does so.

This guy sounds like Ron Paul. Awesome.

[sk8ramp]

There are 2 things in life that are certain one is dying and the other is income tax

According to Frank Sinatra the only two sure things in life are hookers and Cadillacs. I agree.

[byzantium]

I heartily recommend reading The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes, a conservative historian. She establishes that the architects of today's federal government were communist sympathizers if not card carrying communists, and they believed that the government should run everything. At the time, it seemed to be working just fine in the Soviet Union, which actually had more employment opportunities than the US at the time (Stalin ran an agency in the US tasked with finding skilled Americans to be managers and such at state owned enterprises; tens of thousands applied every year in the first half of the 1930s).

When the Supreme Court kept shooting down communist New Deal measures, the communists eventually got the elderly justices to retire, and in 1942 the court ruled that communism was, in effect, legal under the Constitution's commerce clause. Due to FDR's death, peacetime communism was never implemented, but a sufficiently motivated president (like Obama) could dust off the old rulings and make America into a communist state. It already pretty much is.

Revolutionary communism is back on the march-Nepal recently became the first country to adopt communism in nearly three decades. Their new flag is a slight modification of the old USSR flag. The founders of the US were pretty radical-Jefferson was an anarchist practically in all but name, and that only because it as yet had none. But I doubt they would have liked Leninism all that much.

The government and financial hooliganism are the only industries left in the US, everything else having been exported. The system relies on speculation to stay afloat, with wealth being created out of thin air, and the government then taxing that phantom wealth to fund itself. If the creation of phantom wealth via speculation were to grind to a halt, the system would collapse under its own weight, and the US descend into civil war and barbarism. The rest of the world would soon follow. The system is unsustainable.

[HarveyJ]

Legal or not, the sad fact is that the IRS isn't even needed, if people could change their philosophy of government. A country is a lot better if the people keep more of their money and give less to an incompetent, wasteful, and generally stupid government that largely wastes it.

Yes. Let's never pay taxes again, because you really don't need roads, emergency services or hospitals...

As much as your taxes pay for things you don't like, the bulk of them go towards things you essentially need.

Go to a country where you don't have to pay tax, and you'll be going to a country where you're screwed if you ever need emergency services, and roads to get to them.

[flnazrael]

As much as your taxes pay for things you don't like, the bulk of them go towards things you essentially need.

No, the outlandish gas tax pays for the roads.

And the emergency services are funded largely by city/county/state taxes.

If you're referring to federal emergency services, I'd point you to FEMA and Katrina. (what a joke)

The income tax goes to pay for things like welfare, The Bridge To Nowhere, and more recently, a $40 million dollar prison in Iraq that they explicitly stated they do not want and are not going to use.

The government wastes 90% of the revenue it receives and spends it on things it has no authority or business doing - including regulating any and everything it can think of.

[jasaunders]

The government doesn't "waste" spending. Even if it spends money on things you don't like. A fundamental of economics, money the government spends cycles through the U.S. economy many times over.
Think about the $40 million prison that was built. The government paid this money to U.S. contractors, who paid other U.S. companies as subcontractors, who paid their U.S. employees a salary, who went out and consumed goods and services, businesses collected revenue from these goods and services and paid their own employees.

When the government spends tax dollars, it doesn't just disappear, it is recirculated through the economy. Many people work for companies who get federal tax dollars for various projects. As entrepreneurs here, many people seek federal grants for things they are working on. Do I personally care if you get a grant to start your business? Is it going to help me? No. But if the government gives you a grant, it is coming from my tax dollars and once the grant is given to your business, you will spend it on other goods and services in the economy.

[flnazrael]

The thing is - I'd rather keep more of my money, and invest it in ways I see fit that will directly benefit me, than to have it go to some of the things I mentioned.

Yes, most of that money recirculates back into the economy - but I think it is better for the govt to spend far less and the people to keep a lot more. In a business, if you have extra money due to lower taxes, you could invest that money into advertising that will target those who will increase your revenue... or, as in the present situation, you can give it to the govt, who will distribute it to corporations, people who don't want to get a job or better themselves (not all on welfare, but many), private contractors in Iraq who get paid for doing things the military should be doing, etc. What are the chances of that money ever coming back in to benefit your business or your community?

Whether the money comes back here or to China, the govt is not supposed to be a bailout, a welfare system, and a regulator of anything and everything like it is today. What we have is socialism now - there is no potential or price for failure in this country anymore (think Fannie and Freddie) - the taxpayers are ultimately responsible for everything now.

[HarveyJ]

I love this assumption by certain people that income taxes only get spent on welfare, that spending on welfare is somehow an overall bad thing (yes there are people that game the system, but they're a small minority, and plenty more rich people game the tax system), or that EVERYONE on welfare is too lazy to get a job.

However, ignorance is bliss, and who am I to make other people unhappy.

[flnazrael]

you can give it to the govt, who will distribute it to corporations, people who don't want to get a job or better themselves (not all on welfare, but many), private contractors in Iraq who get paid for doing things the military should be doing, etc.

The list of things the govt wastes money on is endless - hence the etc.

Welfare was only one of three specific and one general things I mentioned.

the govt is not supposed to be a bailout, a welfare system, and a regulator of anything and everything like it is today. What we have is socialism now - there is no potential or price for failure in this country anymore (think Fannie and Freddie) - the taxpayers are ultimately responsible for everything now

Again, I am not just talking about welfare.

Please don't cherry pick.


And I do not blame the rich for gaming the tax system - they already pay the brunt of taxes. This country did not prosper by taxing production to death and then redistributing it. Come to think of it, no country has ever prospered like that.