Difficulty in Patent Process?

[Squandered Halfpints]

I was just curious to see if anyone knew the steps taken in the actual patent process (from the perspective of those who supply the patents).
I've talked to many people, and I see many people here who post statements on how getting a patent is relatively "easy." But how easy is it, and from what side are you looking at? I'm interested in finding more about the actual legal side of patenting. With so many people striving to become the next big entrepreneur, the business of the "patenters" must be doing pretty well, right?

-What Type of companies do this?
-How much do they charge?
-Are you able to do it yourself?
-What type of database do they use in determining what patents have already been taken?
-Are they mainly used for their legal knowledge, and the steps they take in everything from researching conflicting patents to preparing the documents needed to obtain a patent?
-Can this type of business be classified as just a law office that contains attorneys whose sole purpose is specializing in patents?

[rogercbryan]

I was just curious to see if anyone knew the steps taken in the actual patent process (from the perspective of those who supply the patents).
I've talked to many people, and I see many people here who post statements on how getting a patent is relatively "easy." (I have yet to see someone post that they are easy to get. If you think 2 years and $10,000 is easy to part with then we must have different views on business.) But how easy is it, and from what side are you looking at? I'm interested in finding more about the actual legal side of patenting. With so many people striving to become the next big entrepreneur, the business of the "patenters" must be doing pretty well, right?
To my knowledge 'patenters' are attorneys so I would wager to say that the 80/20 rule applies. 80% of the business is being done by the top 20% while the other 80% of attorneys in this field are doing the other 20%.
-What Type of companies do this?
All kinds: Lawyers, Agencies, and Companies like Invent Help

-How much do they charge?
Fees vary by service needed. Patent fees run about $2500-$10000 for simple patents. Then you have to add in the Patent Offices Fees of $500-$1700

-Are you able to do it yourself?
It's been done before

-What type of database do they use in determining what patents have already been taken?
That information is help by the Patent Office. I'm not sure who has access to that. When you apply for a patent depending on the agency you go through they may provide you with copies of similar patents. So I would guess it is semi-public information.

-Are they mainly used for their legal knowledge, and the steps they take in everything from researching conflicting patents to preparing the documents needed to obtain a patent?
I don't understand what you are asking

-Can this type of business be classified as just a law office that contains attorneys whose sole purpose is specializing in patents?
Those exist as well

*This information is based on my previous experience with applying for a utility patent. I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

[Squandered Halfpints]

What I'm really interested in is the search for current patents. Roger, you mentioned that you believe it to be semi-public information, and I think it must be as well. But I see no reason why it isn't very easily accessible to the public. If the ideas and products are already patented, I see no reason why there would be any risk of any intellectual prop. being stolen.

-In other words... If I were to come up with an idea, how would I find out if it has already been patented without paying some sort of fee?
-If nobody knows, do you have any suggestions to how I could find this out?

[akula]

What I'm really interested in is the search for current patents. Roger, you mentioned that you believe it to be semi-public information, and I think it must be as well. But I see no reason why it isn't very easily accessible to the public. If the ideas and products are already patented, I see no reason why there would be any risk of any intellectual prop. being stolen.

-In other words... If I were to come up with an idea, how would I find out if it has already been patented without paying some sort of fee?
-If nobody knows, do you have any suggestions to how I could find this out?

google has a free service
google.com/patents

log on and get access to world class patent search
make some money while you're at it too...find a bunch of patents which you think are being undercommercialised and sell them!

[jasaunders]

United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page
click on patents on the left, then select (5) Search Patents
Full text search is available since 1976

[ron komorowski]

United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page
click on patents on the left, then select (5) Search Patents
Full text search is available since 1976

That's for a "quick" search; goes back to 1976. The reason why you can do a search only back to 1976 is because some concepts don't need to go back to the beginning, like a part for a PC; new technology.

An advanced search can be done off the same patent search page. I did my own searches and then had them reviewed by a patent agent for one patent and a patent attorney for the other. I had to search all the way back. Advanced searches go all the way back but many patents in the beginning years were burned and lost forever in a fire at the US Patent and Trademark office.

They do keep changing things lately. The patent drawings might not be available anymore before 1976. You used to be able to do a "paper" search of patents there but all is moving quite quickly to electronic.

A paper search was thought to be more thorough 10 years ago, now electronic is considered the new way.

Learning about patents is not hard but very complex as there is so much to know. It does get complicated at the office action sometimes (patent office's first review of your patent app.)You really can't get accurate information on a forum, you need to read a couple of books and the rules are constantly changing as WIPO (World intellectual property organization) is constantly putting pressure on the U.S. to make the rules the same as all the other countries. We have some extra services here that really help the independent inventor.

Patent attorneys can write patent apps and litigate them. Patent agents get licensed from the USPTO to be able to write patents but they can not litigate.

A design patent can cost half to a third of the cost for a simple utility patent. There are people advertising patent writing services for as little as $2500 but you can get papers filled with hogwash worth nothing. you must be careful and GET references.

I had a TERRIBLE experience with a patent attorney firm out of midtown Manhattan. You would figure they would be good. $25,000 bill for something the patent office completely threw out. Still straightening that mess with USPTO.

READ A COUPLE OF BOOKS AND BE CAREFUL!!! I must have studied 20 books on the matter and still I need much help from attorneys/agents

Patents are NOT easy to obtain. I'm fighting very hard for two right now. The examiners can really bring up some crazy irrelevant patents against you as prior art. Makes you mad too as you see it is completely different than yours but they give you a hard time anyway. In recent years it was easier as they let more apps go through until the courts put more pressure as too many rushed patents got overturned in courts. New changes are up for review at the USPTO right now that will make it much tougher yet for the little guy.

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home

[Squandered Halfpints]

google has a free service
google.com/patents

log on and get access to world class patent search
make some money while you're at it too...find a bunch of patents which you think are being undercommercialised and sell them!

If I were to sell, or possibly buy one of the patents myself, how would I go about doing that? What type of legal and/or governmental authorities need to get involved? How much complexity is involved?

[ron komorowski]

google has a free service
google.com/patents

log on and get access to world class patent search
make some money while you're at it too...find a bunch of patents which you think are being undercommercialised and sell them!

Akula is right. Most inventors are the type that tend to stay in a sort of isolation. They are loners as that is the place for intricate thinking etc.

The last thing they are good at is promotion and sales. This comes from hangiong around with these guys constantly and the study of inventing.

Many patents just sit. Ron Popeill bought a patent for $10,000, think it was his instant "hair" spray for balding people. It was one of his big sellers.

Didn't Bill Gates really start off buying someone else's technology for $50,000?

If you don't buy or license a patent, a patent search is the absolute best way in the world to come up with your own idea. You will think of related concepts or, many inventionjs of years ago were not able to be built with the materials then (efficiently) Today they are possible and feasable, and maybe the patent ran out.

To buy a patent or license you simply contact the person or attorney listed on the patent.

Patents are interesting stuff. All should learn about the field. It is gambling for the most intelligent; I believe a notch above playing stocks and investing because YOUR brains made the "bet" existant.

A number of good books on the subject must be read before even thinking of a venture in this field. It is vast and technical. You WILL LOSE if you don't do your homework.

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home

[rogercbryan]

google has a free service
google.com/patents

log on and get access to world class patent search
make some money while you're at it too...find a bunch of patents which you think are being undercommercialised and sell them!

great resource... I never knew about this..

[Squandered Halfpints]

Akula is right. Most inventors are the type that tend to stay in a sort of isolation. They are loners as that is the place for intricate thinking etc.

The last thing they are good at is promotion and sales. This comes from hangiong around with these guys constantly and the study of inventing.

Many patents just sit. Ron Popeill bought a patent for $10,000, think it was his instant "hair" spray for balding people. It was one of his big sellers.

Didn't Bill Gates really start off buying someone else's technology for $50,000?

If you don't buy or license a patent, a patent search is the absolute best way in the world to come up with your own idea. You will think of related concepts or, many inventionjs of years ago were not able to be built with the materials then (efficiently) Today they are possible and feasable, and maybe the patent ran out.

To buy a patent or license you simply contact the person or attorney listed on the patent.

Patents are interesting stuff. All should learn about the field. It is gambling for the most intelligent; I believe a notch above playing stocks and investing because YOUR brains made the "bet" existant.

A number of good books on the subject must be read before even thinking of a venture in this field. It is vast and technical. You WILL LOSE if you don't do your homework.

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home

Ron, can you make any specific suggestion on books written on the subject? Mainly ones geared towards investments - (securities) - and patents.

[akula]

If I were to sell, or possibly buy one of the patents myself, how would I go about doing that? What type of legal and/or governmental authorities need to get involved? How much complexity is involved?

umm..not much..you just execute a common law contract and contact the USPTO to reassign the intellectual property in their database

1. find a patent that you think someone would wanna buy
2. contact the seller and ask them to sell you a call option with expiry date "x" and strike price "$"
3. contact the buyer and sell them a call option with expiry date "x-y" and strike price "$+k"
4. use the premium you received in step 3 to pay the premium in step 2.
5. if the buyer eexercises their option, you exercise your option...and the ownership of the asset then passes from the seller, to you and then to the buyer
6. contact USPTO with instructions to update their db
7. keep the difference in strike price as profit