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Originally Posted by Ahern & Brucker

Ron...Maybe I can help you understand what Jmenq2 is trying to say...

He's saying that unless you have someone you can quote a "source" someone who has written down and confirmed your discoveries something you can mimeograph or "copy and paste" proving you right... than your full of it...

whatever you have learned or discovered on your own from your own sources and experiences doesn't mean squat is "somebody" didn't "say it already. it has to be in a text book or some "expert" has to verify it... you can't be your own source of information... because what you see with your own "lying eyes" can not possibly be credible!

Ron... these guys get their information from books and professors... that's their source.. that's how they learned how to learn... discovering things on their own is a waste of time because they are geared to be efficient. (from what i have been gathering and what they have been telling me...- easier to skim a top ten list and assume it as fact than try to prove each one wrong or right. if it's written in a book, it's good enough as fact and if it's in an expensive book, it is indeed fact.


Jmenq2... Ron is stating his information on what he has discovered... his experience in the field learned while "daily damn doing it"... just like you learn from history, (text books and college lesson plans) some people learn frorm experience and in the present. Ron may be seeing something that hasn't hit the main stream thinking... god only knows the economy experts aren't always right... as evidanced by (just open your eyes and look around). but, i feel certain that if you look for experts to back up his findings you could find them as easilly as you could looking for experts to disprove him... try it and see if I am right?

there, I think that should clear things up

That's not what I was saying at all. Josh stated a statistic regarding the change, or lack thereof, in the number of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. between one period and another. Ron contradicted this statement with his own. I asked Ron to provide just a single source supporting his statement and he repeatedly refused. Quite simply, that destroys your credibility.

[jasaunders]

I work with manufacturers on a daily basis. My entire job revolves around working with manufacturers. To say (1) that manufacturing jobs are all being sent overseas is just not supported by facts. It might be supported by the bias of a person he speaks with at a few manufacturing companies or someone who reads the AFL-CIO newsletter, but according the the U.S. Department of Labor which compiles statistics on the labor market every month, this is just not the case. And (2) to more or less say that the U.S. is going to collapse if we keep losing manufacturing jobs and that manufacturing is the soul of the U.S., again is just plain wrong. I gave specific information on the transition of economy sectors and information from a manufacturing expert at the Chicago Fed whom I know personally and consider to be far more credible than Ron. The U.S. is not dependent on manufacturing and the economy's shift to services over the last several decades is not destroying America.

[Ahern & Brucker]

Originally Posted by jmenq2

That's not what I was saying at all. Josh stated a statistic regarding the change, or lack thereof, in the number of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. between one period and another. Ron contradicted this statement with his own. I asked Ron to provide just a single source supporting his statement and he repeatedly refused. Quite simply, that destroys your credibility.

well, if that's the case, I stand corrected (don't get used to it because it doesn't happen that often)

but, isn't he telling you who his sources are for making his claim or dispute? aren't his sources the guys he's talking about, his manufacturing pals?

that's what I hear him saying... those "are" his sources. right ? wrong?, where am i missing the point? the guy says he talks to guys who are telling him this... he takes what the guy tells him and applies his own situation/ logic to it and his answer is what it is. from his observation.

How come his observation can't be the source? for example, how come he can't say "i'm my own source, based on what i know and experience every day"...?

does't observation count? (and why not?)

[Ahern & Brucker]

Originally Posted by jasaunders

I work with manufacturers on a daily basis. My entire job revolves around working with manufacturers. To say (1) that manufacturing jobs are all being sent overseas is just not supported by facts. It might be supported by the bias of a person he speaks with at a few manufacturing companies or someone who reads the AFL-CIO newsletter, but according the the U.S. Department of Labor which compiles statistics on the labor market every month, this is just not the case. And (2) to more or less say that the U.S. is going to collapse if we keep losing manufacturing jobs and that manufacturing is the soul of the U.S., again is just plain wrong. I gave specific information on the transition of economy sectors and information from a manufacturing expert at the Chicago Fed whom I know personally and consider to be far more credible than Ron. The U.S. is not dependent on manufacturing and the economy's shift to services over the last several decades is not destroying America.

hey you won't get any argument from me in either direction... you sound pretty credible...

Let me ask you though... economy shifting from one thing to the next and now we are in the service sector as you say... what comes after this? what hapens when we ousource the service sector jobs... than what do we go to?

we can't just be consumers and not add anything back into the system can we?

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How will we outsource the service sector jobs? While some services can be outsourced, there are others that just aren't. Also, we haven't outsourced all production of goods, but rather just shifted our focus according to what makes sense from a comparative advantage point of view. While certain industries have been relocated to more efficient areas, such as steel production, other new ones take their place, such as in the technology sector.

[jasaunders]

I'm not sure what comes after services. All I'm sure of is that we will eventually shift to something else as we get more efficient and it becomes cheaper and easier to get services provided elsewhere. Already our call centers and help desks have begun being outsourced, which are services. The difference with services though, is that a lot of services can't be outsourced. You can't outsource going to the dentist, or getting your car fixed at the mechanic, or getting a haircut, or the cook making your steak at a restaurant. At least in the foreseeable future, there will be a need for people to provide services locally.

But back in the 17th century when a majority of people worked in agriculture, who would of thought that one day there might be a thing called a factory that made things called machines. And in the 19th century, when a worker was in a factory, who would of thought that one day there would be a computer and robot doing the same job. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's next...

[nocci01]

White collar and middle management jobs are being outsourced far more than any other sector. Don't take my word for it. Experts that aren't left or right have been predicting this for years. You can find the information in books such as "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman, "No Time" by Heather Menzies, and "The Twilight of American Culture" by Morris Burman. If you don't like to read (or pretend you don't have time to)...just listen to this audio: 15 Years Left.

From these resources, you'll find that more people in India speak English than the entire continent of North America. You'll also find that they have more children on the honor roll than our continent. Their children are improving their education and "work" ethics while North American children are playing GTA (Grand Theft Auto) and Halo. The board of directors of companies who outsource are there to make the companies more profitable. If you were on the board of directors and can hire people in Asia for half the price and twice the work ethics...why wouldn't you? The experts say that you have a few choices:

1. Find and learn a trade (they can't outsource plumbers, barbers, butchers, etc.) because white collar jobs and middle management jobs are declining!
2. Find a way to earn from people in Asia and other countries that are taking jobs away from North America (i.e. direct selling - home businesses - network marketing - MLM - see www.FirstClassMLM.com to learn that the government says MLM is legal, or listen to David Bach's CD titled "Start Smart Finish Rich" - he's the author of "The Automatic Millionaire")
3. Get more education and take a paycut or move to another country.

Learn the truth about MLM from www.FirstClassMLM.com, MLM Lawyer Jeff Babener presents MLM Legal, a resource of multi-level marketing law issues and direct sales law library. or MLM  Watchdog: Index /MLM IS A+!  SCAMS BAD MLM Consumer Protection  Network Marketing news - MLM Detectives.

Also, if you want to learn more about the economy and where it is shifting...I recommend listening or reading informatino from Paul Zane Pilzer (Paul Zane Pilzer Homepage).

[ron komorowski]

Originally Posted by nocci01

White collar and middle management jobs are being outsourced far more than any other sector. Don't take my word for it. Experts that aren't left or right have been predicting this for years. You can find the information in books such as "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman, "No Time" by Heather Menzies, and "The Twilight of American Culture" by Morris Burman. If you don't like to read (or pretend you don't have time to)...just listen to this audio: 15 Years Left.

From these resources, you'll find that more people in India speak English than the entire continent of North America. You'll also find that they have more children on the honor roll than our continent. Their children are improving their education and "work" ethics while North American children are playing GTA (Grand Theft Auto) and Halo. The board of directors of companies who outsource are there to make the companies more profitable. If you were on the board of directors and can hire people in Asia for half the price and twice the work ethics...why wouldn't you? The experts say that you have a few choices:

1. Find and learn a trade (they can't outsource plumbers, barbers, butchers, etc.) because white collar jobs and middle management jobs are declining!
2. Find a way to earn from people in Asia and other countries that are taking jobs away from North America (i.e. direct selling - home businesses - network marketing - MLM - see www.FirstClassMLM.com to learn that the government says MLM is legal, or listen to David Bach's CD titled "Start Smart Finish Rich" - he's the author of "The Automatic Millionaire")
3. Get more education and take a paycut or move to another country.

Learn the truth about MLM from www.FirstClassMLM.com, MLM Lawyer Jeff Babener presents MLM Legal, a resource of multi-level marketing law issues and direct sales law library. or MLM* Watchdog: Index /MLM IS A+!* SCAMS BAD MLM Consumer Protection* Network Marketing news - MLM Detectives.

Also, if you want to learn more about the economny and where it is shifting...I recommend listening or reading informatino from Paul Zane Pilzer (Paul Zane Pilzer Homepage).

Yes...this is truth. This is the rebirth of manufacturing jobs in technologies that some here are speaking of that replaced the "hammer and block" manufacturing of yesteryears that we all speak of when we recognize manufacturing.

I long thought that the United States let the simple manufacturing go in leu of developing higher technology manufacturing jobs....but you know what? The rich son-of-a-bitches sold us out and moved these high tech jobs overseas to fatten their pockets and for fine looking numbers on Wall St. for a few months.

All hear SHOULD BE PRAISING ME FOR TAKING THIS DIE HARD STAND ON MAKING IN AMERICA....fools if you don't...I am one of the last fighting for made in the U.S....and trust me...I DO have the biggest mouth. I WILL be waking people up as the strong legs of America are no more as we have lost our will "to make" and we just all want to "wheel deal and steal" and sell shit to each other.

I could have all my products coming made in China. Hire a girl in the office to process orders and fill my bank account with all the extra profits of manufacturing cheaper overseas. Would you like that? Make me richer when you buy from me? Or would you admire me when I settle for half the profits as I wish more important to create as many jobs in the U.S. as possible?

Manufacturing jobs ofcoarse, are relabeled as history progresses. The people who count these manufacturing jobs will and must change the qualifications. If someone plants flowers by seed, this is manufacturing. Washing a dirty car can be called re-manufacturing. Are these the manufacturing jobs that are now being counted so the American public can be fed more bullshit to be appeased while the super rich make even more yet?

We cannot be fooled by numbers and bogus statements to appease us all anymore. President Bush told us our economy is just fine and strong a month and a half ago....and, in short, don't worry about a thing. The truth is, in a months time, if anyone has any mathematical sense they can see our ECONOMIC SYSTEMS ARE BUSTED; OUR CYCLE; IT HAS NO DRIVE, NO FUEL...because we gave up our manufacturing strong arm in the world.

WE HAD TO DROP OUR DOLLAR TO SHIT TO SEEL STUFF ABROAD AND BOOST OUR EXPORTS (and don't think there wasn't any internal influence on the dollar to do this...you'd be stupid) We have asked China for years to fix the value of the Yen as it is unfair to global trade partners.

Look...the country prospers from making stuff...not from bullshitting selling stuff to each other.

I have a very complex, well respected, way of figuring. Most will get lost in just the smoke. Not being an ass...but I have abilities to figure used by governments, large companies and others. If you don't understand this dire message, then just remember...you will understand later but I hope when it's not too late.

For the naysayers and those that question me, just go try to have a product made in the U.S. made of plastic, metal, electronics, wood (furniture) and even software which is being PIRATED so bad our software manufacturers gave up in instances and hired the piraters and as they moved executive offices next to the piraters (can't beat 'em join 'em).

So I ask, what is left to manufacture? We don't even want to help ourselves with our needs for our own fossil fuels. How long can this country sustain on bullshit of just selling each other shit? Has the the shit finally hit the fan? This economic downturn came too soon. Not the normal recession cycle of every 8 years (about)

We have had severe economic troubles since 9-11...only someone twisted and spun the information to make all content and secure. The truth and the numbers are not for us, the general public. Although some here have listened and bought what they were told or heard.

My advice, you call yourself an entrepreneur; an entrepreneur, a good one, stays ahead of the curve. The curve ahead was just explained to you.

You, entrepreneur, do your part to rebuild your country's manufacturing base so the country can lead and prosper once again. If you do not live in the U.S., buy a few manufactured products from us to help us out because after all, we are the biggest contributors and monitors of the global economy.

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home

[ron komorowski]

Originally Posted by CLICK ME!

Ron, you've made several comments, at least, that sound like complete BS. I have simply asked you to cite a reliable source of the information. The fact that you have failed to despite numerous requests and instead have decided to now take cracks at me shows that it's actually YOU, not your comments, that are full of BS.

Listen Jmenq2. Atleast you will need to recognize in life when others have brains. This is very important. I am not writing this for you right now but for others here and for the people who PMed me for support which is why I am here...to HELP and BUILD alliances for good.

You asked me over and over how much money I will keep from my invention and kept bugging me because I would not answer your STUPID question for nothing.

If you ask me how many times I will get laid the rest of my life and by how many different women and I can give you a more meaningful and accurate answer.

You asked my sources? One last time I will take my precious time to type for your question with demeaning intent. I have consulted with a concept to Livio Desimone, 3M's CEO (former now) on 3M's reputation and stance of manufacturing in the U.S. and the recognition of 3M being the leaders of pollution prevention in the U.S by recycling chemical by-products of their manufacturing.

Ford motor company, THE MOTHER of U.S. manufacturers in U.S. history; one of their former CEO's who was called the best boss of Ford since Henry Ford himself in his prime; I have his home phone number. We talk from time to time.

BAE Systems. This is the largest defense contractor in the world. You may not know the name because they are the parent company of many. I was called this summer to see if I can help figure how to put a new type of armour on tanks, faster in the assembly lines as they were rushing to the Middle East because of the new breed of roadside bombs that were priercing our tanks.

I AM THE SOURCE. ME. I am also trying to make a large number of products here in the U.S. made of metal, plastic and textiles, and I wanna kick all these lazy manufacturers in the shin when they tell me that they now outsource their processes overseas and no longer provide the manufacturing services I need but they will fill out a few papers for me to help me obtain these products from their overseas sources.

You may wonder what I am doing here with all these things going on. I will tell you. I have been invited to the very highest grand stages of the entrepreneur world that you know. I am seeing how my philosophies and theories go over in the general community to see if and how long I will take that stand.

I am nothing special, just a guy with a few talents like everyone else here....and it don't make a damned bit of difference who's got more or less. I have much to learn and so do you. I am looking to improve and whatever the hell I got that gets me to these levels, to share that know how or whatever. If I can spur 10 guys to manufacture and sell worldwide from the U.S., then that is more important and valuable than anything I can do today.

Do this, if not for me then yourself. There are GREAT resources here,minds FILLED with intelligence for us all to use.

Cut out the bullshit man, work together with people and don't arrogantly challenge people. PLEASE, politely correct me if I am wrong. I want to learn and the sharp kids here will teach me.

I expect you have a VERY good knowledge and enthusiasm with the 2500 posts you have here...put it to good use to build a team. Attacking people who you have no idea who they are is not helping yourself.

NOTHING IS EXACT, including science, that said, all can be said to be an opinion or educated guess. No one is perfectly correct.

Ron
Inventor of Handi-Straps
Handi Straps Lifting System Home